Concept for enhancing Ethics

  • Victoria 3 - Sign up now!

    The journey begins, sign up now and get a special in-game item when the game is released.


  • Crusader Kings III Available Now!

    The realm rejoices as Paradox Interactive announces the launch of Crusader Kings III, the latest entry in the publisher’s grand strategy role-playing game franchise. Advisors may now jockey for positions of influence and adversaries should save their schemes for another day, because on this day Crusader Kings III can be purchased on Steam, the Paradox Store, and other major online retailers.


    Real Strategy Requires Cunning
  • Crusader Kings II Expansion Subscription

    Subscribe to the CK II Expansion and enjoy unlimited access to 13 major expansions and more!


A2ch0n

Spymaster
20 Badges
May 30, 2018
576
1.634
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Dear Paradox team,

Many of the community members have a problem with the different power level between the Ethics. Especially the Materialist <-> Spiritualist axis is heavily discussed.

So my idea would be, to give ethics a third stat modifier to balance out those things. My suggestion would be (Nemesis Mechanics already in Mind) the following:



EthicBase stat modifier 1Base stat modifier 2New stat modifiertFanatic stat modifier 1Fanatic stat modifier 2New fanatic modifier
Materialist-10% Robot Upkeep+5% Research Speed+1 Scientist Level Cap-20% Robot Upkeep+10% Research Speed+2 Scientist Level Cap
Spiritualist+10% Monthly Unity-5% Edict Cost+1 Organical Pop Assembly+20% Monthly Unity-10% Edict Cost+2 Organical Pop Assembly
Xenophile+10% Trade Value+1 Availlable Envoys+ 10% Diplomatic Weight+20% Trade Value+2 Availlable Envoys+20% Diplomatic Weight
Xenophobe-20% Starbase Influence Cost+10% Pop Growth Speed+10% Government Ethics Attraction-40% Starbase Influence Cost+20% Pop Growth Speed+20% Government Ethics Attraction
Parcifist-15% Empire Sprwal from Pops+5 Stability-25% Border Friction-30% Empire Sprwal from Pops+10 Stability-50% Border Friction
Militarist-10% Claim Influence Cost+10% Ship Fire Rate-10% War Exhaustion Gain-20% Claim Influence Cost+20% Ship Fire Rate-20% War Exhaustion Gain
Authoriatarian+0.5 Monthly Influence+5% Worker Output+1 Decryption+1 Monthly Influence+10% Worker Output+2 Decryption
Egalitarian+25% Faction Influence Gain+5% Specialist Output+25% Resettle Chance+50% Faction Influence Gain+10% Specialist Output+50% Resettle Chance
Gestalt Consciousness-20% War Exhaustion Gain+1 Monthly Influence+2 Districs per Planet---

Please remember, this is just a suggestion and the main concept is the third additional modifier. The new examples in the chart are just ideas what could maybe logical for each empire type.

I don't have touched any of the existing stats and wrote them only down as a reminder. Spiritualist got of course something more powerfull as the others to compensate the penalty on robots and Materialist got something a little weaker.

I'm open for ideas and suggestions what could possibly fit for some ethics. If someone has a good one and i' like it, i would actualize my chart above!

I hope you like my concept. Thanks for reading!
 
Last edited:
  • 6Like
Reactions:

Tamwin5

General
19 Badges
Dec 3, 2017
2.164
2.171
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I don't think pop assembly makes sense for spiritualists. Yes, they don't get robots, but organic pop assembly is only a thing for hives/bio ascension. Just because you are spiritualist doesn't mean you are going full stem cell cloning Frankenstein's Monster... in fact normally probably the opposite. I'd suggestion either a reduction to pop CG upkeep or pop amenities (or is there a generic pop upkeep which does both?).

I'm not really a fan of just giving materialists another research bonus. Just encourages too much min-max, and makes their flavor just "hah science go brrr". Maybe a leader xp gain or max leader level?

Authoritarian decryption makes 0 sense to me, but I assume you have some reason? This would be another spot to put a leader bonus potentially. Ideally I'd like it to serve as a mirror to egalitarian though, so maybe they both get a leader bonus? +level vs +experience, like they used to. That would leave materialist hanging though.

I'd move war exhaustion to militarist, and then make xenophobe be counter-espionage +0.5. The current ones are alright as is though.

Pacifist bonus feels weak, and is also the only bonus on here which is useless in MP. I might suggest just making this a hidden bonus for pacifist, and let something else take this.

Getalt I don't think should get districts, since that doesn't seem at all like a policy decision. No clue what to do instead however.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:

HFY

Field Marshal
26 Badges
May 15, 2016
2.938
5.863
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Ancient Space
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
+1 Organical Pop Assembly
Are you like... praying people to life?

I get why Spiritualists need access to this, but I don't get why they should *start* with it for free. Materialists don't always start with +1 Robot Assembly job -- you need a tech (which you can get from an Origin).

-25% Border Friction
This is brilliant, it's thematic and useful for a Pacifist.
 

A2ch0n

Spymaster
20 Badges
May 30, 2018
576
1.634
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I don't think pop assembly makes sense for spiritualists. Yes, they don't get robots, but organic pop assembly is only a thing for hives/bio ascension. Just because you are spiritualist doesn't mean you are going full stem cell cloning Frankenstein's Monster... in fact normally probably the opposite. I'd suggestion either a reduction to pop CG upkeep or pop amenities (or is there a generic pop upkeep which does both?).

I'm not really a fan of just giving materialists another research bonus. Just encourages too much min-max, and makes their flavor just "hah science go brrr". Maybe a leader xp gain or max leader level?

Authoritarian decryption makes 0 sense to me, but I assume you have some reason? This would be another spot to put a leader bonus potentially. Ideally I'd like it to serve as a mirror to egalitarian though, so maybe they both get a leader bonus? +level vs +experience, like they used to. That would leave materialist hanging though.

I'd move war exhaustion to militarist, and then make xenophobe be counter-espionage +0.5. The current ones are alright as is though.

Pacifist bonus feels weak, and is also the only bonus on here which is useless in MP. I might suggest just making this a hidden bonus for pacifist, and let something else take this.

Getalt I don't think should get districts, since that doesn't seem at all like a policy decision. No clue what to do instead however.
So some of your ideas are good. You wanted some explanations for some of my suggestions and here you are:

Spiritualists: This one is unlogic, you're right. The problem is, that spiritualits real problem compared to materialist (and everyone else) is pop growth. And thats even a problem with 2.9 where bio ascension gets the new clone vats and psi ascension is the only one still missing pop growth. So i find it really hard to get a bonus thats powerfull enough to compensate this and thats why i took this at the moment. The two most powerfull stats are science output and pop growth and both are already given to materialists (and Xenophobes in case of growth. I would like to switch this of from xenophobe to spiritualist, but thats not for me to decide). If you have something equal powerfull in mind that would be more logical i would be happy to take it into that chart! CG upkeep is an idea but thats maybe to weak? i'm open for input!

Materialist: Agreed! And changed in the chart.

Authoritarian: The biggest fear of an Dictator or Emperor is to loose his power. Thats nothing new. So information about everyone inside and outside the epmpire is mandatory. Every message will be read and every communication intercepted if possible. We know from history that most Authocracys have a powerfull intelligence service to control the people inside and outside of the own borders and get as many informations as possible. So decryption is very fitting for me. No changes here.

Militarist: This is a tough one. I agree that war exhaustion would better fit here as well (at least they live for the fight). I have changed it up to now but will keep my original in mind.

Xenophobes: Here is my original reason that Xenophobes hate the xeno enough to fight even longer, but as said above you're right, there could be something better, more logical. Counter espionage is not fitting i think. Every empire has it's fear for spies and sabotage so there is not much difference between a Xenophobe and a Militarist or a materialist in case of blocking them off. I see xenophobe more in blocking xeno influences off from the own population and bring them in line with the own government. So i've changed this to government ethics attraction (whats a little weaker i know, but xenophobes are quite strong at the moment so i think thats ok). I'm open for suggestions here.

Parcifists: Yes, it's technically a little weak but quite fitting. If it would be a passive bonus (like xenophile/xenophobe diplomacy) i would be absolute ok (and militarist the opposite of course then). But actually it isn't. What would you suggest here that fit the theme? I'm curious.

And to the topic of MP: Until Nemesis, Xenophile is useless in MP too. This ranges from envoys (not really important to have a good or bad standing for player deals) and Xenophile diplomacy is useless too. As long as a war can be declared even if your relations are Excellent there is no real benefit. And the GC is most likely a player deal too here, so don't know. Of course with Nemesis this will slightly change.

Gestals: This is the toughest one. I had long reflected about this but don't find something really good. The reason i took this was the logic, that gestalts can build much more dense. At least their pops don't need much personal space, only a place to rest and then go back to work. Additional can the work environments be smaller es well. So you're right im not happy with this too. But i don't have a better idea :confused:

Hope this helps you out.
 
Last edited:
  • 1Like
Reactions:

A2ch0n

Spymaster
20 Badges
May 30, 2018
576
1.634
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Are you like... praying people to life?

I get why Spiritualists need access to this, but I don't get why they should *start* with it for free. Materialists don't always start with +1 Robot Assembly job -- you need a tech (which you can get from an Origin).
You're right as stated in the above post :confused: .I'm open for suggestions that are better. But it shouldn't be too weak. You know the spiritualist problematic.
 
Last edited:

Archael90

General
16 Badges
Nov 30, 2017
1.806
1.209
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Majesty 2
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Spiritualists should get access to robots and synths. I dont want to argue why, i dont want to start this discussion again, but personally, i think that spiritualists should just be able to build robots, and make synth citizen rights, and no more bonusses would be needed. temples are great buildings, still materialists would be ahead, but not as much.
 

Tamwin5

General
19 Badges
Dec 3, 2017
2.164
2.171
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
So some of your ideas are good. You wanted some explanations for some of my suggestions and here you are:

Spiritualists: This one is unlogic, you're right. The problem is, that spiritualits real problem compared to materialist (and everyone else) is pop growth. And thats even a problem with 2.9 where bio ascension gets the new clone vats and psi ascension is the only one still missing pop growth. So i find it really hard to get a bonus thats powerfull enough to compensate this and thats why i took this at the moment. The two most powerfull stats are science output and pop growth and both are already given to materialists (and Xenophobes in case of growth. I would like to switch this of from xenophobe to spiritualist, but thats not for me to decide). If you have something equal powerfull in mind that would be more logical i would be happy to take it into that chart! CG upkeep is an idea but thats maybe to weak? i'm open for input!

Materialist: Agreed! And changed in the chart.

Authoritarian: The biggest fear of an Dictator or Emperor is to loose his power. Thats nothing new. So information about everyone inside and outside the epmpire is mandatory. Every message will be read and every communication intercepted if possible. We know from history that most Authocracys have a powerfull intelligence service to control the people inside and outside of the own borders and get as many informations as possible. So decryption is very fitting for me. No changes here.

Militarist: This is a tough one. I agree that war exhaustion would better fit here as well (at least they live for the fight). I have changed it up to now but will keep my original in mind.

Xenophobes: Here is my original reason that Xenophobes hate the xeno enough to fight even longer, but as said above you're right, there could be something better, more logical. Counter espionage is not fitting i think. Every empire has it's fear for spies and sabotage so there is not much difference between a Xenophobe and a Militarist or a materialist in case of blocking them off. I see xenophobe more in blocking xeno influences off from the own population and bring them in line with the own government. So i've changed this to government ethics attraction (whats a little weaker i know, but xenophobes are quite strong at the moment so i think thats ok). I'm open for suggestions here.

Parcifists: Yes, it's technically a little weak but quite fitting. If it would be a passive bonus (like xenophile/xenophobe diplomacy) i would be absolute ok (and militarist the opposite of course then). But actually it isn't. What would you suggest here that fit the theme? I'm curious.

And to the topic of MP: Until Nemesis, Xenophile is useless in MP too. This ranges from envoys (not really important to have a good or bad standing for player deals) and Xenophile diplomacy is useless too. As long as a war can be declared even if your relations are Excellent there is no real benefit. And the GC is most likely a player deal too here, so don't know. Of course with Nemesis this will slightly change.

Gestals: This is the toughest one. I had long reflected about this but don't find something really good. The reason i took this was the logic, that gestalts can build much more dense. At least their pops don't need much personal space, only a place to rest and then go back to work. Additional can the work environments be smaller es well. So you're right im not happy with this too. But i don't have a better idea :confused:

Hope this helps you out.
You can actually go robots as spiritualist, you just take a measly 5% approval penalty. It's allowing AI, or god forbid, giving robots rights that gives the massive penalties. And imo the problem isn't that spiritualists can't go robots, it's that robots are so strong you have to go for them. As counterintuitive as it sounds, the way to make spiritualist stronger isn't by adjusting the spiritualist ethic.

Personally I would have gone with a bonus for all leaders, not just scientists, but materials is strong so it's probably fine.

Just because you fear losing power doesn't make you automatically better at counter-espionage. Encryption and Decryption represent various cyphers and other ways of coding information so that even if it is discovered, it can't be read. If you wanted to have the flavor of just reading all communications, counter-espionage would be better. I still don't think it fits though, because all these espionage stats are only useful against other empires, not internal matters. It's also a strong bonus for an already strong ethic. I'm also a big fan of how egalitarian and authoritarian serve as mirrors of each other. Maybe -5% housing usage? That way it's a mirror of how to deal with pops on a world, egalitarian are free too seek out new areas while authoritarian are crowded in place.

I actually think there would be a TON of difference between a xenophobe and a materialist in terms of counter-espionage. Criminal elements of your society will likely hate outsiders more than they hate the government/authority, making it harder to get in-roads for agents. Xenophobes (at an individual level) will naturally be more suspicious of things like a person they don't recognize asking them to hold the door open. Fear and paranoia also will keep people doing rigorous security checks and stuff that more laid back people would skip if they had the chance. TL;DR: If a country hates outsiders, it makes it much less likely for an outsider to get in.

I agree it's perfect flavor, which why I suggested keeping it as a hidden buff (or even just have it as it's own line "reduced border friction" like how some ethics get living standards or slavery). As for what it could be, some ideas that come to mind are happiness or admin cap, but those are both basically what is already being given. Reduced crime would work, but would be even weaker than border friction, if only because crime has no teeth currently. And in regards to xenophile, envoys are still quite useful in multiplayer. Because player relations often aren't the same as inter-country relations, you'll often need to use an envoy to sign stuff like defensive pacts or federations. And you still need envoys just as much for keeping federation cohesion up or boost your diplomatic power in the GC. In fact, in one of the recent MP games I was in had more than a third of the empires take diplomatic corp as their third civic to try and win the power struggle in the GC.

Another possibility for xenophile would be reduced diplomatic cost for agreements. Probably not the -25% that lets you get free treaties, but -10% would be fine.

If gestalts are crowding more people in, then wouldn't it be reduced housing? I could see reduced outpost influence cost, increased unity, admin cap, etc. Max districts doesn't play well (or rather, it plays WAY TOO WELL) with habitats and ring worlds.
 

mial42

Colonel
16 Badges
Sep 28, 2020
1.190
2.376
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Necroids
Regarding pacifist border friction: wouldn't it make more sense to tie reduced border friction to the "defensive wars only" war policy (and perhaps the "defense in depth" war doctrine as well)? IMO, liberation war happy "pacifists" shouldn't get reduced border friction, while even non-pacifist empires who officially forswear aggressive war should get it (although in practice, I'd expect only pacifists to actually use "defensive wars only").
 
  • 1Love
Reactions:

A2ch0n

Spymaster
20 Badges
May 30, 2018
576
1.634
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Regarding pacifist border friction: wouldn't it make more sense to tie reduced border friction to the "defensive wars only" war policy (and perhaps the "defense in depth" war doctrine as well)? IMO, liberation war happy "pacifists" shouldn't get reduced border friction, while even non-pacifist empires who officially forswear aggressive war should get it (although in practice, I'd expect only pacifists to actually use "defensive wars only").
I think this would be a good addition for both. The war policy update for everyone and the pacifist on top.
 

GOLANX

Major
19 Badges
Mar 17, 2021
634
447
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
I have a mod that's been working on this a little bit so maybe I can compare a few notes, First off I think Having Negatives can better enhance the differentiation of different ethics, for example Xenophobes increase border friction, Materialist are bad at generating Unity, Egalitarians allow for diversity of thought reducing governing ethics attraction. such things can add flavor to how an empire works and you have to decide how you overcome each obstacle.

Spiritualist: there is another suggestion thread in this forum that suggests giving spiritualist an additional Civic slot (2 for Fanatics) that can be filled with a special civic to better define the state religion, and I quite like that idea, Religion does not mean the same thing to everyone, even in the same religion, allowing players to pick additional civics that boost their empire define their religion is a neat way to take spiritualist that allows a diversity and role play and can counteract their current weakness, additional Civics based around Procreation are certainly doable.

Xenophiles: I swapped their bonus to trade value with Pacifist's bonus to empire sprawl from pops, Xenophiles will tend to have more pops with all the different species, Pacifist have a hard time going wide so sprawl isn't that valuable to them, trade value will help accentuate their tall nature. i know this isnt a part of your suggestion but feel like this is a change those ethics need anyways. I also gave Xenophiles the reduced border friction, the benefit of Being Space Canada is your neighbors like you.

Xenophobes: are characterized by disliking filthy Xeno Scum, this means that unlike xenophiles they have a hard time getting alien species to settle planets for them that they don't find comfortable, so I set them up to have a planetary habitability bonus for their main species so they can more easily colonize planets that aren't their preference.

Pacifist: as stated earlier they had a swap with xenophiles, I also reduced their naval capacity, the fact that your people don't like war should reduce recruitment, they make up for this with additional starbases, and starbase defensive capacity as pacifist should rarely engage in offensive operations the ability to hold their territory is more important, I also plan to make pacifist more accepting of becoming a tributary (they get protected and don't have to go to war), and will also not hate the idea of being in a federation that allows war more freely, their reduced naval capacity means they will have reduced participation in the war. Pacifist have too hard of a time making friends in the game rn and 9/10 its because they don't like your war policy, or your bombardment doctrine, plus liberation wars policy gives them more casus belli than unrestricted wars (which is backwards yo).

Militarist: The Zeal for the military is good for recruitment, I gave them additional naval capacity. I am not opposed to the war exhaustion modifier, A bigger fleet is a bigger presence in peacetime and is more important for winning a war, perhaps the war exhaustion modifier should be applied to unrestricted wars policy instead (a nice bonus if defensive wars only were to provide reduced border friction), or militarist could get an edict that reduces war exhaustion.

Authoritarian: I'm waiting till i have a good idea for a negative i like with authoritarians but i plan to give them the bonus to Governing Ethics attraction, forcing your people to adhere to the state party line is a very authoritarian thing to do and i don't think egalitarians should ever have access to such a benefit with the exception of the ascension perk, that means egalitarian xenophobes as well.

Egalitarians: i gave Egalitarians a negative modifier to governing ethics attraction, moreover the point of being egalitarian is that your society believes in freedom and diversity of thought, so when my overly happy pops strictly adhered to my State ethics i was appalled to have created willing drones who would never question the priorities of the state. i buffed up the faction influence gain since having more differing ideologies means having more factions that may be hard to balance the positives with, i'm not sure about any additional bonuses to give them, i haven't played around with it enough to get an idea of the full effects, if AI's decide they want to dump egalitarianism it wouldn't be good, the idea is that they shift their nonegalitarian ethics more readily, i also plan to give fanatic egalitarians a path to another ethic point. perhaps for you if you don't want to use negative modifiers like i do something like ethics shift chance may be more appealing, we just dont know enough about the resettling policies in the nemesis update to get a good idea of whether resettlement chance will be good, and even then its a bonus that requires unemployment which should take time before it begins to occur.

Gestalts don't have factions their influence gain is stunted because of it, id buff up the base influence increase, i can dig the +2 on districts.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

Tamwin5

General
19 Badges
Dec 3, 2017
2.164
2.171
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I have a mod that's been working on this a little bit so maybe I can compare a few notes, First off I think Having Negatives can better enhance the differentiation of different ethics, for example Xenophobes increase border friction, Materialist are bad at generating Unity, Egalitarians allow for diversity of thought reducing governing ethics attraction. such things can add flavor to how an empire works and you have to decide how you overcome each obstacle.

Spiritualist: there is another suggestion thread in this forum that suggests giving spiritualist an additional Civic slot (2 for Fanatics) that can be filled with a special civic to better define the state religion, and I quite like that idea, Religion does not mean the same thing to everyone, even in the same religion, allowing players to pick additional civics that boost their empire define their religion is a neat way to take spiritualist that allows a diversity and role play and can counteract their current weakness, additional Civics based around Procreation are certainly doable.

Xenophiles: I swapped their bonus to trade value with Pacifist's bonus to empire sprawl from pops, Xenophiles will tend to have more pops with all the different species, Pacifist have a hard time going wide so sprawl isn't that valuable to them, trade value will help accentuate their tall nature. i know this isnt a part of your suggestion but feel like this is a change those ethics need anyways. I also gave Xenophiles the reduced border friction, the benefit of Being Space Canada is your neighbors like you.

Xenophobes: are characterized by disliking filthy Xeno Scum, this means that unlike xenophiles they have a hard time getting alien species to settle planets for them that they don't find comfortable, so I set them up to have a planetary habitability bonus for their main species so they can more easily colonize planets that aren't their preference.

Pacifist: as stated earlier they had a swap with xenophiles, I also reduced their naval capacity, the fact that your people don't like war should reduce recruitment, they make up for this with additional starbases, and starbase defensive capacity as pacifist should rarely engage in offensive operations the ability to hold their territory is more important, I also plan to make pacifist more accepting of becoming a tributary (they get protected and don't have to go to war), and will also not hate the idea of being in a federation that allows war more freely, their reduced naval capacity means they will have reduced participation in the war. Pacifist have too hard of a time making friends in the game rn and 9/10 its because they don't like your war policy, or your bombardment doctrine, plus liberation wars policy gives them more casus belli than unrestricted wars (which is backwards yo).

Militarist: The Zeal for the military is good for recruitment, I gave them additional naval capacity. I am not opposed to the war exhaustion modifier, A bigger fleet is a bigger presence in peacetime and is more important for winning a war, perhaps the war exhaustion modifier should be applied to unrestricted wars policy instead (a nice bonus if defensive wars only were to provide reduced border friction), or militarist could get an edict that reduces war exhaustion.

Authoritarian: I'm waiting till i have a good idea for a negative i like with authoritarians but i plan to give them the bonus to Governing Ethics attraction, forcing your people to adhere to the state party line is a very authoritarian thing to do and i don't think egalitarians should ever have access to such a benefit with the exception of the ascension perk, that means egalitarian xenophobes as well.

Egalitarians: i gave Egalitarians a negative modifier to governing ethics attraction, moreover the point of being egalitarian is that your society believes in freedom and diversity of thought, so when my overly happy pops strictly adhered to my State ethics i was appalled to have created willing drones who would never question the priorities of the state. i buffed up the faction influence gain since having more differing ideologies means having more factions that may be hard to balance the positives with, i'm not sure about any additional bonuses to give them, i haven't played around with it enough to get an idea of the full effects, if AI's decide they want to dump egalitarianism it wouldn't be good, the idea is that they shift their nonegalitarian ethics more readily, i also plan to give fanatic egalitarians a path to another ethic point. perhaps for you if you don't want to use negative modifiers like i do something like ethics shift chance may be more appealing, we just dont know enough about the resettling policies in the nemesis update to get a good idea of whether resettlement chance will be good, and even then its a bonus that requires unemployment which should take time before it begins to occur.

Gestalts don't have factions their influence gain is stunted because of it, id buff up the base influence increase, i can dig the +2 on districts.
Frankly, I disagree with your pacifist, xenophile, and xenophobe changes. Rather than going for a good flavor for the ethics, you seem to be more focused on gameplay effects rather than the flavor of the ethic. I mean it is a mod so you do if you want to change ethics to be gameplay focused, but I do think Stellaris's strongest aspect is the story.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

GOLANX

Major
19 Badges
Mar 17, 2021
634
447
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
Frankly, I disagree with your pacifist, xenophile, and xenophobe changes. Rather than going for a good flavor for the ethics, you seem to be more focused on gameplay effects rather than the flavor of the ethic. I mean it is a mod so you do if you want to change ethics to be gameplay focused, but I do think Stellaris's strongest aspect is the story.
I'd appreciate it if you were a little more specific, I think the changes on those ethics are rather good flavor that takes into account their issues, intent in design, and personality.

Switzerland isn't Pacifist because of a large military, and doesn't pick fights with Germany or France because it doesn't like their war policy. Switzerland is a small nation that is incredibly defensible, thats what makes them good Pacifist, the Reich would have steamrolled Switzerland if it thought it would be an easy fight and path to France, without the benefit of geography any Pacifist nation can only keep its autonomy by making friends, particularly bigger ones. So by providing extra defensive stations I give them something roughly equivalent to Switzerland's defensible terrain to maintain their autonomy, they are happier being tributaries cause that's a big guy friend who can protect you, Germany and Japan both exist as Pacifist nations that survive off of a tributary relationship with the US, and by fixing up the AI to not pick fights they better keep their flavor as Pacifist.

I did make the gameplay argument for Xenophobes huh, well allow me to add flavor. Xenophobes will habitate less habitable Areas so as to deny access and cause harm to Aliens. Immigration averse Americans have moved closer to the border with Mexico, a area with dry hot deserts, that aren't very hospitable as a means to deter Mexican immigrants. You could probably find more examples but these stuck out to me. Also my other idea was to embrace the idea that Xenophobes are a superior race and give them bonus gene points, that idea is a little strong and makes my ethics squirm.

I have no idea where you nay have had issues with my xenophila change.
 

Tamwin5

General
19 Badges
Dec 3, 2017
2.164
2.171
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
I'd appreciate it if you were a little more specific, I think the changes on those ethics are rather good flavor that takes into account their issues, intent in design, and personality.

Switzerland isn't Pacifist because of a large military, and doesn't pick fights with Germany or France because it doesn't like their war policy. Switzerland is a small nation that is incredibly defensible, thats what makes them good Pacifist, the Reich would have steamrolled Switzerland if it thought it would be an easy fight and path to France, without the benefit of geography any Pacifist nation can only keep its autonomy by making friends, particularly bigger ones. So by providing extra defensive stations I give them something roughly equivalent to Switzerland's defensible terrain to maintain their autonomy, they are happier being tributaries cause that's a big guy friend who can protect you, Germany and Japan both exist as Pacifist nations that survive off of a tributary relationship with the US, and by fixing up the AI to not pick fights they better keep their flavor as Pacifist.

I did make the gameplay argument for Xenophobes huh, well allow me to add flavor. Xenophobes will habitate less habitable Areas so as to deny access and cause harm to Aliens. Immigration averse Americans have moved closer to the border with Mexico, a area with dry hot deserts, that aren't very hospitable as a means to deter Mexican immigrants. You could probably find more examples but these stuck out to me. Also my other idea was to embrace the idea that Xenophobes are a superior race and give them bonus gene points, that idea is a little strong and makes my ethics squirm.

I have no idea where you nay have had issues with my xenophila change.
Your approach is "Xenophobes will. be colonizing planets not suited for them (in order to deny aliens), so they should get bonuses from that". When in reality the mere act of hating aliens doesn't make it any easier to breath the wrong type of air. Xenophobes would likely do it anyway, but they wouldn't be any better at it than an authoritarian or militarist. "Xenophiles will have lots of pops so they should be better at managing them" but having a wide and diverse population, and welcoming in new ones, wouldn't make those populations any easier to administer. On the contrary, a pacifist population would be less likely to cause issues, and thus be easier to manage. Where as with xenophiles, the accepting of other cultures and groups and the willingness to reach out and open borders (at a personal/company level, not just empire) will facilitate trade.

In short, your train of thought seems to be "Ethic X should play this way, so I should give it bonuses to make it good at that." Even if the way you want them to play is in flavor, just grabbing random bonuses to fit it isn't. It's also important to keep in mind that there are multiple ways to play an ethic. Pacifists can keep the peace through a large overwhelming fleet, and may need it if they are bordered by a genocidal. Not everyone is going to be Switzerland.
 

GOLANX

Major
19 Badges
Mar 17, 2021
634
447
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
you make some good points and your not wrong thank you for your specificity.

the only part i have an issue with is Pacifist having a large overwhelming fleet, if pacifist ethos makes your populous easier to manage presumably because they dislike confrontation, wouldn't this also translate into their opinions about the military? The military gains recruits through prestige, a country with a strong military tradition will have a lot of recruits, that's how you build your career, become a citizen, that kind of thing. Pacifist are the opposite, the military is a necessary evil, a dead end for your career, a path to become a violent savage, service members aren't celebrated, they are tolerated, if that. in the Aftermath of Vietnam veterans returned as villians, blood thristy savages, baby killers, its not hard to say this is how pacifist think of the military, and its a stark contrast to the Heroes of the Second World War with Ticker Tape Parades. Hell the military didn't need a Draft for WW2, they had enough signing up to join it was never an issue. Vietnam required a Draft, and many who found themselves drafted fled the country so they wouldn't have to join, these 2 warfare philosophies i think sum up well the difference between Militarist and Pacifist Ethos. I will say this though, the Leadership in Vietnam were very set in old ways and wanted to fight a war like WW2 and had a poor time adapting to the North Vietnamese whose fighting styles were considerably different, this was a war in which leadership ethos and the ethos of the public didn't match up causing massive unhappiness.

Pacifist can still build an overwhelming fleet, the negative fleet modifier i used is up to only 20% for fanatics, if pacifist do the work and become bigger, stronger, more tech savy they can easily match a more militarist empire pound for pound, additional starbases can be used defensively they can also still take anchorages and shipyards, nobody is stopping them from doing that, but naval power doesn't match their ethos thats why its their weakspot, if a pacifist nation is bordered by a genocidal empire they can use their additional starbases to slap one down on a chokepoint between the 2 empires, then use the greater number of defensive slots to really bunker it up (yeah i know the balance isn't perfect but that is also a fixable issue), the Pacifist navy can also be kept on that chokepoint preventing the genociders from entering the pacifist territory. Pacifist also would prepare for the Genocidal race by making friends with empires that don't have the same issues with war, Genocidal empires will think twice about picking a fight with you even if your navy is weaker if you are a tributary of an empire with a fleet that can match their power, or a member of a federation that can overwhelm the genocidal empire. Pacifist have to be good at diplomacy, short of switzerland there is no other way for them to survive, right now in the game Pacifist suck at diplomacy and thats its own problem.

Now there are plenty of policys, traditions, technologies, edicts and even civics that can help you change things around, invest in the supremacy tradition tree, research military techs, turn on the fleet supremacy or defense in depth edicts, set your economy to militarized and stockpile alloys like there is no tomorrow, because there might not be, if you are isolationist you get your naval power restored, use diplomatic corps to make friends who will fight for you, use a corvee system to keep your pops away from conflicts, take your pick there are plenty of answers that Pacifist can pick, a negative naval modifier will not exhaust your ability to fight beyond not being able to declare war which they already couldn't do.

You can also decide that the Pacifist Ethos that you started with aren't fulfilling the needs of your empire and dump it, if you find your empire is surrounded by hostile empires and you need a change, embrace your militarist faction, being rigid and uncompromising in the face of certain defeat is a certain way to be defeated, an empire can adapt and Stellaris allows for this. keep in mind also if your surrounded by a lot of friendly empires, or FEs you can become more Pacifist for the nice economy modifiers and give up the ways of warfare. A pacifist Empire that builds up a strong military tradition will have a hard time staying Pacifist, empire Ethics change, the US has changed Ethics multiple times in the last decade, and we didn't have the threat of Fanatic Purifiers to do that.
 

Tamwin5

General
19 Badges
Dec 3, 2017
2.164
2.171
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
you make some good points and your not wrong thank you for your specificity.

the only part i have an issue with is Pacifist having a large overwhelming fleet, if pacifist ethos makes your populous easier to manage presumably because they dislike confrontation, wouldn't this also translate into their opinions about the military? The military gains recruits through prestige, a country with a strong military tradition will have a lot of recruits, that's how you build your career, become a citizen, that kind of thing. Pacifist are the opposite, the military is a necessary evil, a dead end for your career, a path to become a violent savage, service members aren't celebrated, they are tolerated, if that. in the Aftermath of Vietnam veterans returned as villians, blood thristy savages, baby killers, its not hard to say this is how pacifist think of the military, and its a stark contrast to the Heroes of the Second World War with Ticker Tape Parades. Hell the military didn't need a Draft for WW2, they had enough signing up to join it was never an issue. Vietnam required a Draft, and many who found themselves drafted fled the country so they wouldn't have to join, these 2 warfare philosophies i think sum up well the difference between Militarist and Pacifist Ethos. I will say this though, the Leadership in Vietnam were very set in old ways and wanted to fight a war like WW2 and had a poor time adapting to the North Vietnamese whose fighting styles were considerably different, this was a war in which leadership ethos and the ethos of the public didn't match up causing massive unhappiness.

Pacifist can still build an overwhelming fleet, the negative fleet modifier i used is up to only 20% for fanatics, if pacifist do the work and become bigger, stronger, more tech savy they can easily match a more militarist empire pound for pound, additional starbases can be used defensively they can also still take anchorages and shipyards, nobody is stopping them from doing that, but naval power doesn't match their ethos thats why its their weakspot, if a pacifist nation is bordered by a genocidal empire they can use their additional starbases to slap one down on a chokepoint between the 2 empires, then use the greater number of defensive slots to really bunker it up (yeah i know the balance isn't perfect but that is also a fixable issue), the Pacifist navy can also be kept on that chokepoint preventing the genociders from entering the pacifist territory. Pacifist also would prepare for the Genocidal race by making friends with empires that don't have the same issues with war, Genocidal empires will think twice about picking a fight with you even if your navy is weaker if you are a tributary of an empire with a fleet that can match their power, or a member of a federation that can overwhelm the genocidal empire. Pacifist have to be good at diplomacy, short of switzerland there is no other way for them to survive, right now in the game Pacifist suck at diplomacy and thats its own problem.

Now there are plenty of policys, traditions, technologies, edicts and even civics that can help you change things around, invest in the supremacy tradition tree, research military techs, turn on the fleet supremacy or defense in depth edicts, set your economy to militarized and stockpile alloys like there is no tomorrow, because there might not be, if you are isolationist you get your naval power restored, use diplomatic corps to make friends who will fight for you, use a corvee system to keep your pops away from conflicts, take your pick there are plenty of answers that Pacifist can pick, a negative naval modifier will not exhaust your ability to fight beyond not being able to declare war which they already couldn't do.

You can also decide that the Pacifist Ethos that you started with aren't fulfilling the needs of your empire and dump it, if you find your empire is surrounded by hostile empires and you need a change, embrace your militarist faction, being rigid and uncompromising in the face of certain defeat is a certain way to be defeated, an empire can adapt and Stellaris allows for this. keep in mind also if your surrounded by a lot of friendly empires, or FEs you can become more Pacifist for the nice economy modifiers and give up the ways of warfare. A pacifist Empire that builds up a strong military tradition will have a hard time staying Pacifist, empire Ethics change, the US has changed Ethics multiple times in the last decade, and we didn't have the threat of Fanatic Purifiers to do that.
In stellaris, naval capacity isn't determined by population. It's determined by naval infrastructure, and my improvements in technology. So public perception of soldiers, and any associated prestige with the military isn't really a factor. Now I am actually ok with pacifists having less naval cap, but I was using the example of peace through a large fleet as a counterpoint to your "pacifists need to build up bastions and pretend to be Switzerland". I'm also not really a fan of trading naval cap for starbases because the downside becomes MUCH worse in the late game, and the benefit much less.
 

GOLANX

Major
19 Badges
Mar 17, 2021
634
447
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Surviving Mars: Digital Deluxe Edition
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Surviving Mars
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
In stellaris, naval capacity isn't determined by population. It's determined by naval infrastructure, and my improvements in technology. So public perception of soldiers, and any associated prestige with the military isn't really a factor. Now I am actually ok with pacifists having less naval cap, but I was using the example of peace through a large fleet as a counterpoint to your "pacifists need to build up bastions and pretend to be Switzerland". I'm also not really a fan of trading naval cap for starbases because the downside becomes MUCH worse in the late game, and the benefit much less.
other modifiers can be increased as well, but if your playing as pacifist then your playing tall, you cant make claims even on pacifism lite, the closest thing to wide they have is a federation, or just hope enough other empires kick the bucket, hopefully pacifist will be able to use espionage to do the dirty work to make their lives easier, and grand scheme id like to see PDX implement some form of Economic or Cultural Warfare that Pacifist will excel at, forcing more aggressive nations into bankruptcy having to give up territory because Pacifist beat them in economic Warfare, or Convincing that nations People to rebel and join the pacifist, convert through soft power. till you can force other empires to give up territory without war they have to play tall and making that easier should be something they can do.

also while you are right about naval cap being somewhat infrastructural, nerfing their military infrastructure would be too much of an impediment to their flexibility imo, you would have more of that weakness late game in exchange for your a better turtle, which there is a balance to be had there, and screwing with their infrastructure might be a step to far.
 
Last edited:
  • 1
Reactions:

HFY

Field Marshal
26 Badges
May 15, 2016
2.938
5.863
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Ancient Space
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Cities: Skylines
plus liberation wars policy gives them more casus belli than unrestricted wars (which is backwards yo).
Yeah this really demands correction.

Unrestricted Wars policy should allow Liberation Wars -- make the AI smart enough to use the appropriate CB rather than restricting CB choices under "Unrestricted".


Another idea for Pacifist navy is to give a strong in-territory attack speed bonus (+20%) and a penalty to out-of-territory attack speed.

That's an idea I've seen work in either a vanilla policy or a mod.
 
  • 1
Reactions:

Tamwin5

General
19 Badges
Dec 3, 2017
2.164
2.171
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Shadowrun Returns
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Yeah this really demands correction.

Unrestricted Wars policy should allow Liberation Wars -- make the AI smart enough to use the appropriate CB rather than restricting CB choices under "Unrestricted".


Another idea for Pacifist navy is to give a strong in-territory attack speed bonus (+20%) and a penalty to out-of-territory attack speed.

That's an idea I've seen work in either a vanilla policy or a mod.
Eh, Why would a pacifist be better at fighting to defend their home than a militarist or xenophobe? If you wanted to add that, I'd make it as a war doctrine, although defense in depth realistically serves a similar purpose.
 
  • 2
Reactions:

A2ch0n

Spymaster
20 Badges
May 30, 2018
576
1.634
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall - Revelations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Season pass
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Premium edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall Deluxe edition
  • Age of Wonders: Planetfall
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
Another idea for Pacifist navy is to give a strong in-territory attack speed bonus (+20%) and a penalty to out-of-territory attack speed.

I don't see a reason to give a parcifist any war related bonus, that wouldn't fit the flavor and somehow contradicts the concept of parcifism. The border friction bonus is really fitting i think and if not someone come up with a much better idea i won't change this.

Eh, Why would a pacifist be better at fighting to defend their home than a militarist or xenophobe? If you wanted to add that, I'd make it as a war doctrine, although defense in depth realistically serves a similar purpose.

That war doctrine is a good idea but of course not tied to a ethic. My goal with the additional ethic stats is beside the balance of some of the weaker ones to divert different empires from each other and encourage certain playstyles.
 
  • 1
Reactions: