[Concept] - Diplomacy 3.0 / Diplomat Warfare

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Alblaka

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Diplomacy, in it's current implementation, is dull and very linear, with no character or intricative details to it. You click through the usual chain of NAP-DP-Fed agreements, probably repeat the same mutual Research Pact trade deal every 30 years, or just rival everything. Diplomacy is instant, unlimited and with no actual purpose or discernible agenda.

To remedy that, I suggest the following:


Diplomatic Warfare
We create a new Leader type 'Diplomat'. For each foreign empire, exactly one Diplomat must be assigned to perform any kind of diplomacy. However, a single Diplomat can be assigned to as many foreign empires as you wish. Additionally, if you do not assign a Diplomat, per default your ruler acts as a Diplomat for to those foreign empires. (Bonus gimmick: in the diplomacy screen, the alien you are talking to is the assigned Diplomat, not necessarily the ruler or the original species.) Note that a ruler working as Diplomat saves you 'a leader slot', but since rulers do not gain Diplomat-specific traits, he will likely be less useful at that position (albeit an experienced high level ruler might outperform a freshly hired level 1 Diplomat).

Instead of beign able to instantly sign treaties and trade agreements, every form of diplomacy but basic hostile ones (aka, declaring rivalry, closing borders, declaring war, and offering peace deals) is locked behind a new mechanic named 'Negotiation'.

Any empire can open a negotiation towards any other known empire (and can only have one such negotiation per other empire), which can include any kind of uni- or bidirectional demand. Demanding a onesided Research Agreement is just as possible as asking for a bothsided NAP.

To complete a negotiation (and cause the demands to take effect), a certain amount of 'progress' points has to be achieved. The number of points needed depends on the size of the demand being negotiated (i.e. a few for 'Open Border's, a lot for vassalizing a multi-planet star empire).

The diplomat assigned to the foreign empire will start generating a base income of progress per month, based upon his level, leader traits, species traits and other modifiers (i.e. tech, diplomatic traditions, etc). Important to note: A diplomat working on multiple negotiations for multiple foreign empires will split his base progress generation across those negotiations (prior to applying modifiers), meaning that any empire intending to do a lot of parallel diplomacy will need to have multiple Diplomats.

An empire can support it's Diplomat's efforts by investing additional political ressources, represented by influence. A toggle in the negotiation can add +1 base progress (which is the same amount a non-modified level 1 diplomat produces) to the monthly progress, at the expense of -1 Influence per months. (This option is not avaible to the 'other' side of the negotiation.)

A foreign empire can react to each currently running negotiation, either taking a 'Welcoming' or a 'Protesting' stance. When Welcoming, a large (+200%) bonus is applied to the progress made on the negotiation, and the assigned foreign diplomat will add his own base progress in favor of the negotiation (so basically both sides' diplomats will work together with a significant boost). When Protesting, the foreign Diplomat will instead subtract his own progress income from the negotiation, either stalling or at the very least slowing it.

Alternatively, the empire may remain 'Undecided' and have a neutral stance (which may also be relevant to avoid splitting up the foreign diplomats attention further, in case he's working on a more important negotiation on a entirely different diplomatic channel). Furthermore, the foreign empire can make a counter-demand, which is another set of negotiable conditions, which it wants to see added to the negotiation. The empire that originally initiated the negotiation can then decide to accept these additional conditions, merging them into the currently ongoing negotiation, which automatically locks the foreign empire into a 'Welcoming' stance. (Trivial case: You demand X minerals, and the other empire counter-demands Y energy, you agree, the negotiation switches to welcome and is done with in a month or two.)


To make this system more than just a 'more complex' and 'less instant' version of current diplomacy, unfavorable negotiations (aka, those the foreign empire is Protesting against) contain a more complex mechanic simulating 'diplomatic combat':

Whilst a negotiation is running against a Protesting Stance, each month generates 'tension', up to a level of '100%'. This applies, regardless of whether the negotiation is stuck at 0% or progressing rapidly. Diplomat leader traits (think 'Skilled Appeaser') can reduce the build-up of tension.

Active tension has a direct impact on relations, and will decay slowly if there is no active negotiation (i.e. because the negotiation was cancelled by the initiator, or finished).

Additionally, certain levels of tension can have additional adverse effects. Once tension surpasses 25%, the other empire can 'intervene', which is a instant action triggered by button, which consumes a lump sum of Influence, but significantly reduces the progress of the negotiation, whilst increasing the tension in return. This represents the empire's official 'stop trying to force this bullshit onto us' proclamation and similar actions.

Once tension passes 50%, there's a (small) monthly chance for negative events to fire, which basically indicate the conflict of interests between the two sides. Squabbles in the embassy, political intrigue, public unrest and other topics come to mind. Generally, the events should be negative in nature, moreso for the instigator of the negotiation, and frequently contain choises that either penalize the empire or increase tension further (or offer expensive options to reduce tension).
The events become mor frequent, the higher tension rises.

Until the tension htis 100%, at which point the negotiation 'escalates' and fails. At that point, it 'becomes clear' that there is no way to reach an agreement 'diplomatically' and the instigator of the negotiation can either chose to back down (which may have adverse effects similar to humiliation) or go to war over the issue (potentially tearing alliances and NAP's apart, assuming they haven't already broken apart due to the negative relations incurred by having a long-running 'protested' negotiation). Using the new casus belli system from Cherry, I feel like a 'Enforce demands by military might' situation would be great for both small and large-scale conflicts (i.e. trying to negotiate your small isolationist neighbour to finally stop being an ass and open his borders for your fleet to fight the Devouring Swarm on the other side, before finally just declaring war on the neighbour to force him to comply).


Additional lines of thought regarding this concept:
  • Xenophobe ethics could give a -25/50% penality to all positive negotiation progress in either direction, meaning that Isolationists both suck at making diplomatic arrangements, but as well are far harder to diplomatically influence.
  • Further penality for Inward Perfectionist Civic?
  • Xenophile ethics could get a significant boost to diplomatic progress grain or gain a tension reduction.
  • Since tension can be approximately calculated before a negotiation starts, a player designing a demand could have an interface telling them whether the negotiation will succeed (assuming no outwards influences or changes) before tension reaches 100%, or is a futile attempt in first place.
  • Having a significantly more powerful empire, either in economy or/and in military, could provide a bonus to diplomatic progress, representing 'gunboat diplomacy'.
  • Diplomatic Traditions could be changed to grant boni to actual diplomacy instead of federations.
  • Having pops of the foreign empire's primary species in your own empire could benefit diplomacy. Same for both diplomats being of the same species.
  • Closed Borders could apply a general minor (-25%?) penality to diplomatic arrangements between the respective empires.
  • Forcing an empire to give up on a rival (including a one-sided rivalry towards the diplomatically initiating empire) could be a negotiateable demand. ("Stop hating on us, we don't want your planets and we would really rather focus on those Exterminators over there.")
  • 'Establish Embassy' could be reintroduced as a demand that boosts diplomatic progress for the empire that established the embassy.
  • Add a 'Diplomat Enclave' from which you can purchase 'Diplomatic Advice' (general bonus), hire highly skilled Diplomat Leaders or obtain new contacts. Maybe even pay them to 'smooth over' bad relations with a select group of other empires.
  • Maybe create a negotiateable demand which applies a 10-year ethical influence to the target empire, to allow diplomatizing empires to swoon other empires to their ethics over time?

Overall, I think this concept would make diplomacy less 'default 4X', give Stellaris more of it's unique storyteling character and furthermore add a significantly large layer of 'peace time interaction' towards other empires.
 
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we could also get contested zones, or "neutral zones" between empires
This could be easily done with a slight tweak to the current claim/outpost system (being able to cheaply 'claim' systems instead of expanding into them, with 'claim stick fights' breaking out in which multiple empires try to putbid each other for control over a system, ending in a 'neutral' system instead, too expensive for either side to actually bother starbase'ing) and has been suggested by a few people either in the suggestion subforum or in the dev diary about the claim system. Wiz merely said he was considering the concept of letting empires claim neutral systems, but I don't see that coming in 2.0, sadly.
 
Sorry for the thread necro but I feel absolutely compelled to bump this before 2.0.2 support winds down. With the war system so much improved, everyone seems to be clamboring for greater depth in the diplomatic game (federations could use some work, but better diplo could be a sound foundation for that).

There's no point in reinventing the wheel; I think this is the best idea for a diplomatic rework I've seen thus far. It solves so many issues. It could go immensely far toward spicing up the excitement to peaceful strategies and tall play, as well as giving different ethics a pronounced diplomatic "feel" beyond static modifiers.

So I'd like highlight this and perhaps re-open discussion of some of the features in light of Dev Diary #107, and the comments on the outstanding and new design goals. Several of them have to do with diplomacy, and an espionage system is now on the list.

Old Goals
  • A 'galactic community' with interstellar politics and a 'space UN'.
  • Deeper Federations that start out as loose alliances and can eventually be turned into single states through diplomatic manuevering.
  • More story events and reactive narratives that give a sense of an unfolding story as you play.
  • More interesting mechanics for pre-FTL civilizations.
  • 'Living systems', making empire systems feel more alive and lived in
New Goals
  • Less micromanagement and more focus on interesting choices in regards to planets, the ability to grow planets beyond current fixed size.
  • Empire trade mechanics and trade agreements.
  • A galactic market where resources and strategic resources can be imported and exported.
  • Espionage and sabotage mechanics.
  • Improved galaxy/hyperlane generation with better placed systems and dangers.
  • More anomalies and unique systems to explore.

As to the "space UN", we could probably take a page from the idea of embassies and expelling diplomats. We can consider UN's as "joint embassies" in which multiple empires routinely put their individual disputes before group arbitration. Each constituent empire places a diplomat at the UN as if it were a single empire. Members can then put forward "motions" for negotiation, to which each other member adopts a stance as usual. If any are faced with an unfavorable diplomatic negotiation, they have the option of kicking it up to the UN for wider backing.

Third party members may also intervene in the affairs of others, demanding an end to wars (and hot-joining them if negotiations fail), open borders etc.
 
I just read the OP's post and I must say I really like it. The only problem I see is that sometimes, diplomacy is quick. There is no time to elude

There should be a way to override the granular side of his system to provoke an immediate answer (with a penalty). Functionally, the system he describes would work as an increasing bonus for perhaps 20 or 50 "reasons" towards an agreement in exchange for months and influence (when you want to speed up negociations or slow them down, as he suggested).
 
I specifically came into the forums today to promote diplomatic systems development. This is exactly the type of system I want to see in Stellaris! I love everything about it, including the Frederic III's above suggestion of a "Force the Issue" button.

This seems like an more Stellaris-appropriate parallel to the "fabricate claims" option from other Paradox games. Espionage would literally just be the exact same system, except the target wouldn't automatically get a note that they're being targeted. I think the best part of this system is introduction of non-violent conflict, which is completely missing from Stellaris.

Sometimes I'll see an empire enter a war with another and think to myself, "Awesome! Now that they're distracted, I'll slice out a few systems for myself and quickly make peace before they look to hard in my direction." Diplomatically speaking, this would be a horrible idea, but it's very lightly punished in Stellaris right now outside of spending some influence for a claim (unless you're a pathetic peaceful empire where this strategy isn't viable). With a real diplomacy system like the one described here, the lack of a "negotiated" claim in advance means my cassus belli is contrived and will reduce my relations with all other empires to some extent, resulting in a real loss of trust that carries over to any diplomatic negotiations my empire is attempting.

Speaking of which, one of my gripes for MP games is that if you and another player decide to ally, it doesn't matter what the actual relationship number is in-game for many things. A fully fleshed out diplomacy system like this would make any real combined efforts require the players' empires' opinions of each other to actually be positive or else face turmoil from inside both empires.

One thing I'll emphasize is negotiations must have a cost to start and maintain -- that's an easy way to limit the diplomatic focus of empires organically.
 
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This suggestion is awesome.
I hope some developer reads it.

Me too.
I'm 80% certain the next DLC will be about Diplomacy, Espionage or both. If you exclude Domination giving access to vassalization CBs, Diplomacy is the 'oldest, untouched' component of Stellaris (or, will be, after the economy rework of 2.2). Plus it's way too lackluster for the massive advances Stellaris had/will have in warfare/economy. And, whilst it's not a feature I would insist on that strongly, Espionage is a frequently requested-feature. And after all we got Ringworlds, Machine Planets and are likely going to see a Metropolis Planet with 2.2... so the odds are good.

Of course it's far-fetched to think this suggestion will go into that next DLC, but I'll be fine if it just ends up being an inspiration.
 
This suggestion is honestly one of the greatest in the forum, and it probably will be added into the game.
So with the new economic rework, would you change anything about your suggestion, maybe a new job or building
 
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So with the new economic rework, would you change anything about your suggestion, maybe a new job or building

Definitely.
But I'll wait till I actually got to play and practice-craft my way through the new updated before trying to make assumptions and designs around non-final values.

So, let's wait till they announce the release date next week, then add a week or two, then probably suffer from Christmas overeating stomach ache, and then I'll make a Diplomacy v4.0 suggestion thread :p
 
This model for a new diplomatic system is awesome. While it may require 4X players to get used to, it is simple and elegant enough, but also offer immense possibilities for strategic depth and immersion. The difference between xenophobic and xenophile empires would feel different to play and interact with beyond simple +/- modifiers. It also would nicely tie into the war demand system as well as the new economic system. Additionally, it would compliment a new espionage system layered on top. I approve.
 
I do recall at PDX con that Martin made reference to some kind of "favor trading" system, which presumably would treat them as a discrete resource you could spend to force negotiations. Perhaps you could willingly take on debts to be called in later.

While that would help diplomacy feel like more of a high-stakes investment, it doesn't contain quite the same kind of Babylon 5 spy drama that this proposal does.

And I sure hope they have diplomat leaders, whatever they choose to do.
 
I do recall at PDX con that Martin made reference to some kind of "favor trading" system, which presumably would treat them as a discrete resource you could spend to force negotiations. Perhaps you could willingly take on debts to be called in later.

Oh, did he mention it merely as 'an idea' or 'a plan'?
If Wiz mentions such things, they're usually a concept he intends to follow up on, unless it turns out they don't fit into the gameplay at all.

Will keep that in mind and see how to include it into the 4.0 version of this suggestion (which will come out somewhen after 2.2, gotta wait to play the new game myself before I can make proper suggestions on top of it).
 
Oh, did he mention it merely as 'an idea' or 'a plan'?
If Wiz mentions such things, they're usually a concept he intends to follow up on, unless it turns out they don't fit into the gameplay at all.

31:00 mark

"I also think that any such [diplomacy] update would generally involve going back and looking at diplomacy, seeing the parts we can improve, making a better trust system, possibly a favor system in some vein like EU4, and just making your allies easy to understand and interact with. So I hope that sort of answers your question, but it's all in a kind of theoretical, undefined future terms."

Seems like he probably meant something partly like a discrete quid-pro-quo system, but not as a tradeable resource. EU4's system is pretty cool anyway.

What I would hope is that the Stellaris rendition does not just become something you can ignore in multiplayer, but rather a resource and/or social combat system that you have to steward just like any other system of that sort. If your people/government are being pressured to end a war by third party meddlers, or the enemy is skillfully pressing for a border system or open borders, it can't just be something you can dodge. Not without cost at least.

Longer explanation:
Diplomacy, Multiplayer Asymmetry and Design Philosophy
 
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Oh yeah, and here in that same talk he mentioned considering adding the ability to make separate peace and intervene in ongoing wars. Intervention would fit perfectly into this system you've outlined: "Accede to these demands/halt your aggression against Empire X, or else we enter the war on their side."
 
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Personally, I don't really like the EU4 favor system. I find that I end up forgetting about the favors I have stacked up and when I need them they are not there and frustrate my experience. The OP model is superior in my opinion.
 
Personally, I don't really like the EU4 favor system. I find that I end up forgetting about the favors I have stacked up and when I need them they are not there and frustrate my experience. The OP model is superior in my opinion.

In a broader sense, I do think that having diplomatic resources would be useful toward flavoring and complexifying the OP system. Influence + Diplomat Skill + Ethic/Civic Modifiers + Favors. That's part of why I think favors (or a sub-class of favors) should perhaps be tradeable. You get dirt on someone and sell it to a third party, who use that as leverage in their negotiations. It would pair well with espionage.

Maybe one way of making favors memorable is to make them rarer and differentiate by type, with only certain types being useful for certain actions. "Came to Your Defense" might persuade people to join wars or accept refugees, but not to sign conventional Migration Treaties. We could then leave influence as the sort of base resource, and treat favors as unique resources; rare, powerful when used, but only in their niche.