Concentrated vs Dispersed Industry

[DrBolle]

Hey there o/

Firstly: Sorry, if I havnt hit the perfect location for my topic. I have read the board rules but i havnt found any instructions about killing two birds with one stone (mod-balancing discussion and ingame balancing discussion).

BTW I thought it would be a nice recollection of pros and cons about those techs.


Now, lets get started:

Currently I am upset with the nerf of concentrated industry due to being superior to dispersed.
Actually it is the new no-brainer to choose dispersed ofer concentrated due to higher amounts of goods produced by them in the same time as concentrated regarding to missing traits of concentrated.

(The thread from February "17: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...ncentrated-vs-dispersed-industry-1-3.1001267/ )

The old system wasnt that great either, so I am sitting here right now and want to balance it somehow.

Because Paradox hasnt rebalanced it since the nerf, so I am considering about creating a mod that fullfills this duty until then (in hope that they might arrange it somehow the way I like to arrange it).

Lets talk about some of the conditions I have choosen:

1. Dispersed and Concentrated are supposed to have the same output after reaching their cap.
2. Conentrated is supposed to have the efficiency growth factor given back.
3. As a major drawback Concentraded has a penalty for strategic bombing (opposite of Dispersed)
4. Dispersed is supposed to produce more goods than Concentrated after production change

Translated into numbers:
(Look at the attached files for a view at the basic numbers and the spreadsheet for some calcs:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zf_W9Nlz-k8HLHqgccEoia-X8QXJR3qPDmhlmWEoHOQ/edit?usp=sharing
In my sheet I have set the techs at Dispersed/Concentrated 2 (doubled the numbers from the pics) and the production efficiency cap to 100%)

All numbers are subjects of discussions!

The results:
1. Concentrated has got the ability back to produce from scratch on a considerable amout more than Dispersed until both hit their cap
2. Dispersed has got the ability to produce more than Concentrated after changing the production.
3. Dispersed has an advantage against strategic bombing and Concentrated has a disadvantage in that point.
4. Dispersed has got the ability to start with a significant higher base productivity.
5. Conentrated has got the ability to start with a little bit of a highe rbase productivity. (subject to change?)
4. After their way to reach the cap, they produce the same amount of goods.
5. The major differences are now between reaching their caps.

My questions:
Is this a propper way to set usable differences between both? Have I overlooked something? Suggestions?
How about the numbers? Are they ok or do they need more love? Suggestions?


I really like to have different playstyles with different opportunities and not that no-brainy-playstyle I have for now. But balancing something isnt that easy at all. So I like to have, as i have mentioned above, different points of view

o7

E: Some ortho

 

[xcrissxcrossx]

Typically I use concentrated with large countries and dispersed with small countries.

 

[ValianBlue]

There are two major differences overall that separate the two.

• Production Efficiency growth v. Production Efficiency Retention
• Bomb Vulnerability

Growth and Retention are more focused on the factories you have available - if you have enough to make new lines or if you need to reallocate them at different times because of a limited industrial base. That being said, I consider growth being more important as growing an industrial base isn't too difficult for most reasonably powerful nations.

Bomb Vulnerability ties in with your air force and AA - how well can they protect your factories. Another factor is the habits of the AI, or other players (although you will have to predict their strategy if you are playing with them for the first time). If the AI tends to produce a lot of strategic bombers, they will intend to use them.


With this in mind, the difference is based on circumstance. Are you going to be hit hard by bombers, or are you safe enough that you can safely ignore them?

If you can mitigate enemy air power through your own air force or AA, that would be a viable alternative compared to dispersed.


On a final note... While dispersed has a higher base, the growth boost that concentrated has will overlap it eventually.


I'm looking forward to any further ideas you may have.

 

[Nikitian]

(In light of DoD seemingly not changing the industry techs yet, as pointed out by a recent thread, I decided to revisit this one from not long ago. Hopefully, it either brings the project back to life or confirms it's dead/no longer developed, allowing for the torch to be passed on.)

@DrBolle
I second the idea that bomb vulnerability should be decoupled in from efficiency (base/growth speed/retention/etc.) balancing in this kind of rework; it needs to be balanced by something else. Perhaps vulnerability to sabotage by partisan groups (resistance)? This would sort of make sense, as large concentrated military installations are easier targets for aerial bombing, but are significantly easier to defend on land whereas smaller and dispersed installations spread the security forces thin, thus making them more vulnerable to partisan raids. Alternatively (or additionally), you could also throw in a repair speed bonus with concentrated industry, as a direct opposite to decreased bombing vulnerability of dispersed.

Regardless, I like your proposed balancing solution very much. Here's to hoping it gets made into a published mod.