Comprehensive Retinue Comparisons for Horse Lords 2.4.x

[Bernard95]

Even if thit thread is old, I second the question, is op still accurate actually, and if not is there a more recent version?

Most of this I would say is still pretty much true- the game hasn't had it's combat mechanics or anything changed that much since Horse Lords. Exact numbers are probably a little off, since for example I know in Jade Dragon Defense Retinues got a slight nerf with a cost increase. That doesn't really change anything though- pikes are still godly, camels / light cavalry are excellent, heavy infantry is solid, and heavy cav is good but way too expensive. Light infantry and archers are still really bad in combat unless you field them in crazy numbers (as in like 50-100k+), and generally their real value is just for being a deterrent to your vassals. Horse archers are still bugged, mostly useless, and completely surpassed by LC.

As far as the new Jade Dragon retinues are concerned according to some Redditors, the only one of worth are the Tibetan Mountaineers which are apparently one of the best in the game now since the light infantry and light cav have some nice synergy with each other in the skirmish phase. That and the unique Tibetan tactic, "Mountain Ambush" is supposed is crazy powerful too, but it's not exactly something you can count on.

 

[Gingerninja]

I just did a nomad run and had excellent success with horse archers, invading china felt like ez mode. I used 60% HA and 40% LC. It's a shame all the retinue/horde guides I see disregard them so easily.

 

[yezhanquan]

Nomad run is ez mode as long as you know what you're doing, and you're always burning down holdings to create empty slots.

 

[Atlantians]

Personally I am rebuilding the stats oh the units in my own personal mod, but I am having a hard time with laws and governments, as I am not very experienced.
So I will probably just focus on the units for now.

We really need a better combat system, but I don't want it to be simplified.

It should not be Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Instead, it should be Rock, Paper, Scissors, Lizard, Spock.

"Scissors cuts paper, paper covers rock, rock crushes lizard, lizard poisons Spock, Spock smashes scissors, scissors decapitates lizard, lizard eats paper, paper disproves Spock, Spock vaporizes rock, and as it always has, rock crushes scissors."

Everything should be a trade-off of cost, speed, and effectiveness in combat.

Light Infantry (LI) - Cheap, good bulk troops. Weak against most units, but very capable in the pursuit phase without Cavalry and effective against other infantry in the skirmish phase.

Heavy Infantry (HI) -

Pikemen (P) -

Light Cavalry (LC) - Fast, most effective against light infantry, weak against pike-men.

Heavy Cavalry (HC) -

Archers (A) - Cheap, good bulk troops. Effective in the Skirmish phase, but easily slaughtered in the Melee phase if acting alone.

Horse Archers (HA) - Fast, most effective against LI, LC, weak against P, A, and HA.

War Elephants (EC) -

Camel Cavalry (CC) -

And some new late-game units would help:

Rocket Artillery (RA) - Effectively expensive Archers. Much more expensive. Highly effective against Heavy Cavalry and Elephants.
This would be a new type of siege unit needed against later the late-game forts.
You would chose either Rockets or Cannons in events. These would only operate in the Melee Phase if all other units are dead.

Cannon Artillery (CA) - Effectively expensive Archers. Much more expensive. Highly effective against Heavy Cavalry and Elephants.
This would be a new type of siege unit needed against later the late-game forts.
You would chose either Rockets or Cannons in events. These would only operate in the Melee Phase if all other units are dead.

This would be a new type of siege unit needed against later the late-game forts.

Culveriners (CU) - Hand-Cannon Infantry precursors to Musketeers. Effectively expensive Archers.
Strong against Cavalry and Light Infantry. Weak against Archers and anything in the Melee phase.

 

[valvegas1]

Sorry to rehash this post again...How would you rate a retinue of 2,000 archers, 4,000 Heavy Infantry and 1500 Knights...I only ask because I have my playable holy order mod and made some custom retinues for the holy orders to emulate there elite troops they have...Essentially for the Catholics ones, that's what they get...A choice of 50 HI & 200 Archers or 50 Knights & 200HI...I built said army and was crusading in the middle east with them, got left alone in Jerusalem and was attacked by a stack of 20k Islamic army...Needless to say I was shocked to see my retinue handle them with relative ease...Not sure if it was luck or some other unusual event I pressed my luck and attacked another 20k+ stack and handled them with ease as well...So I pretty much won the entire crusade with a measly 7500 troops by more than 100k points...Seemed like my retinue was a bit overpowered for my liking...Any suggestion on how to nerf them slightly or if I even should?

EDIT; forgot to mention i'm still on the 2.7.2 beta till i finish this playthrough and testing before I update to the new version

 

[Frank327]

With that mix you have a very high chance to use the charge tactic early which is very strong with that composition. Also heavy cav and archers are just the two strongest (and most expensive) units in the game. Aside from the archers, your conposition is about as expensive as a nomad army mix and those are notorious for beating armies twice their size.

 

[Ninaran]

Choose a Suggested Generic Mix, (if you want to optimize and) if you have:

Where do I find those suggested mixes? This is a rather insane wall of text so I have no idea where to look.

 

[Slime99]

Has this thread become immortal?

 

[moscal]

The conclusions of this test are still valid?

 

[Rockphed]

The conclusions of this test are still valid?

Reportedly, the Cataphract is no longer self-defeating (Cataphracts no longer fire disorganized harrass, which was why they were so bad), but the rest of the conclusions are still valid. Note, however, that these tests were "what pure/almost pure retinue performs the best at a given retinue cap", not "what retinue performs the best at a given soldier amount".