Comprehensive Retinue Comparisons for Horse Lords 2.4.x

[Secret Master]

Wait, so just to be clear:

When the center flank switches to pursuit, and has routed the opposing center flank, and it turns to fight either the left or right flank, it gets a 270% bonus? This bonus does not apply to the right or left flank.

And the center has to be in pursuit mode, right?

 

[Kumicho]

Wait, so just to be clear:

When the center flank switches to pursuit, and has routed the opposing center flank, and it turns to fight either the left or right flank, it gets a 270% bonus? This bonus does not apply to the right or left flank.

And the center has to be in pursuit mode, right?

Ok, to the best of my knowledge:

When the Center Flank has routed the opposing flank, *and* it's in Pursuit (and possibly Melee?), it gets a +270% bonus.
(Still working on getting this screenshot)

When two Flanks have routed their opposing flanks, *and* they're in Pursuit mode (and possibly Melee?), they both get +270% bonus. So this applies to Left/Right flanks, or Left/Center, or Right/Center.

When it's just one of the side flanks, *or* when it's still in Skirmish, there's only a 30% bonus for Flanking.

 

[Secret Master]

So, there is no 270% bonus if the army starts with only one flank at the beginning of the battle and we are in skirmish.

And, if there are no right or left flanks to rout (again, only a center flank), the right and left flanks cannot go into pursuit, so they don't get the 270% bonus, either.

This means when I run retinue-only armies for cleaning up vikings, I'm not running into the 270% bonus from the vikings. (I keep the retinue in the center only even when no levies are in mobilized.)

 

[Kumicho]

So, there is no 270% bonus if the army starts with only one flank at the beginning of the battle and we are in skirmish.

And, if there are no right or left flanks to rout (again, only a center flank), the right and left flanks cannot go into pursuit, so they don't get the 270% bonus, either.

This means when I run retinue-only armies for cleaning up vikings, I'm not running into the 270% bonus from the vikings. (I keep the retinue in the center only even when no levies are in mobilized.)

Try it yourself. Just mouse-over the phase of battle (Bows for Skirmish, Swords for Melee, Cavalry for Pursuit) and you'll see exactly what the bonuses are.

Just keep in mind that with an all-heavy-infantry Retinue in the center, you're subjecting yourself to both of the side flanks getting +30% Flanking bonus throughout the Skirmish phase...

 

[Secret Master]

Just keep in mind that with an all-heavy-infantry Retinue in the center, you're subjecting yourself to both of the side flanks getting +30% Flanking bonus throughout the Skirmish phase...

Which I'm not super worried about.

In these situations, I'm just cleaning up 500 man viking stacks with a 2500 man retinue. A 30% bonus means little, but a 270% might cause a few extra casualties that I have to replace for gold.

 

[Kumicho]

Which I'm not super worried about.

In these situations, I'm just cleaning up 500 man viking stacks with a 2500 man retinue. A 30% bonus means little, but a 270% might cause a few extra casualties that I have to replace for gold.

Yeah, you might want to rethink your strategy. From a test I just ran:

The +270% definitely applies to the Melee phase as well.

 

[Secret Master]

Aha, well then I will change it up a bit then. I can't be spending gold replacing retinue losses that could be avoided.

 

[Peter Kirby]

Peter Kirby, you should redo all of your calculations depending on how the flanks are configured.

Ha! Fortunately, the spreadsheet's calculations don't change. Its calculations concern 1 flank VS 1 flank and stop at the end of skirmish & melee. (Of course, a player who doesn't use all three flanks in his armies may not be able to use the spreadsheet for much. Whether this really matters depends a bit on whether that playstyle is optimal.)

 

[Atlantians]

Ha! Fortunately, the spreadsheet's calculations don't change. Its calculations concern 1 flank VS 1 flank and stop at the end of skirmish & melee. (Of course, a player who doesn't use all three flanks in his armies may not be able to use the spreadsheet for much. Whether this really matters depends a bit on whether that playstyle is optimal.)

Why not pursuit?

 

[Talq]

Why not pursuit?

Its to determine whats good for winning. If you are in pursuit, you've already won.

And 99% of the time, you can just walk into the province they have retreated to and beat them again until they disband.

 

[Ilion]

Its to determine whats good for winning. If you are in pursuit, you've already won.

And 99% of the time, you can just walk into the province they have retreated to and beat them again until they disband.

And sometimes, you've already caught (and decimated) them in two or three other provinces, and not you're going in for the final (and easy) kill ... and they still manage to kill your commander, who is also your desired heir.

 

[Sir_Wesalot]

Ha! Fortunately, the spreadsheet's calculations don't change. Its calculations concern 1 flank VS 1 flank and stop at the end of skirmish & melee. (Of course, a player who doesn't use all three flanks in his armies may not be able to use the spreadsheet for much. Whether this really matters depends a bit on whether that playstyle is optimal.)

Love this thread! Awesome Work!

I'm new to using Retinues (since I'm a miser and just bought LoR yesterday-yes I'm WAY behind on DLC). I'm in the middle of an Ironman game from a single Hungarian Count of Pest; now Emperor of Carpathia (also control Wendish Empire) and have worked my magic marrying my female. genius heir Matrilineally to a claimant of the still-powerful HRE who was successfully installed into power by a faction demand. When I first started my retinue I did not read this thread and created a stand-alone retinue thinking that's how they were best used. I did Shock in center flank and Hussars on left and right flanks. I'm not up to the 17k retinue cap that I currently have, so should I focus on Hussars only at this point in building the rest of my retinue since earlier in the thread you said not to disband and start over mid-way through. I am very late-game at this point, so here's to looking forward to the next play-through!!

 

[Kumicho]

Love this thread! Awesome Work!

I'm new to using Retinues (since I'm a miser and just bought LoR yesterday-yes I'm WAY behind on DLC). I'm in the middle of an Ironman game from a single Hungarian Count of Pest; now Emperor of Carpathia (also control Wendish Empire) and have worked my magic marrying my female. genius heir Matrilineally to a claimant of the still-powerful HRE who was successfully installed into power by a faction demand. When I first started my retinue I did not read this thread and created a stand-alone retinue thinking that's how they were best used. I did Shock in center flank and Hussars on left and right flanks. I'm not up to the 17k retinue cap that I currently have, so should I focus on Hussars only at this point in building the rest of my retinue since earlier in the thread you said not to disband and start over mid-way through. I am very late-game at this point, so here's to looking forward to the next play-through!!

It depends on how much cash and time you have... If it were my game, I'd certainly (slowly) start transitioning the current retinues over to all-Hussars, as Hussars are one of my favorite Retinues (I prefer Iberian light cavalry for their offensive bonus vs defensive bonus, but ALL light cavalry are good). Start slow, and only when you have a LOT of gold since it's ridiculously expensive. However, the results will definitely be worth it.

Also, if you have access to the Light Cavalry/Horse Archer mercenaries, they're a great addition to your center stack of LC retinues if you need more troops. Then split your levies on the left/right flanks, and you'll be pretty much unstoppable.

 

[Sir_Wesalot]

Thanks for the feedback. Came home from work today and tested out the retinues I had with a few additional Hussars (money not an issue as I'm practically rolling in it) that maxed my Retinue capacity. Egyptian Sultan tried to Jihad for Jerusalem and MAN that retinue did WORK! Such a major difference than refular levies. Can't wait to finish this playthrough so I can start another with retinues from the beginning!

 

[Mox1]

...so are these still accurate?

 

[heliostellar]

 

[DàbiànLājīdàrén]

This wouldn't be a problem if they would just overhaul the combat system to something more understandable like in EU4.

 

[giantsfrey]

Hmm, I'm curious about Housecarl bonuses. Does a "Germanic (Reformed Pagan)" who used to be Norse count as a "Non-North Germanic Commander?" All primary expansions are active.

 

[GoatMagic]

Hmm, I'm curious about Housecarl bonuses. Does a "Germanic (Reformed Pagan)" who used to be Norse count as a "Non-North Germanic Commander?" All primary expansions are active.

A non-north germanic commander would be a commander who doesn't have a culture in the north germanic group. If you look at the commander and their culture isn't norse, danish, norwegian, or swedish, they are not north germanic.

 

[Mohreb]

...so are these still accurate?

Even if thit thread is old, I second the question, is op still accurate actually, and if not is there a more recent version?