You dont need to add reliability to mech, it's not cost effective
Competitive tank division and designs thread
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Armour on tanks is pointless, stack armour on a TD
divisions get 40% of a td's piercing and armor from 1 battalion
Armor clicks are fine for breakthrough
my biggest worry with the above division is that it uses the worst doctrine just to have better stats from support companies and the final stats are extremely mediocre, with breakthrough and hard attack in particular being terrible for 1943 tech
and how are you fitting all these 15w under your good general??
Plus no flame tank means good luck clicking outside of plains/desert tiles
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Guy thinks he can click an entrenched mech tank out of a marsh tile with these divs lmao
Sorry Sir, breakthrough 811 per 45w is top notch vs any thing in this topic. Usually my tanks is efficience on IC and high HP so not care too much about loss. Breakthrough don't change the battle outcome, only change on the next battle if reinforcement not come. Or yes, they can lower the Org, but this tank have 3 times more total Org.
Hard attack is easy, just wait.
I wonder how do you playing before NSB and its flame tank. Still can use flame tank, but the support arty work in every terrain, attack or defend.
Too bad there isn't a way ya'll could like just play each other and find out if things work or not, or work differently than you expected.
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Come and do a MP game against me and try and break my stalin line with your divs, you won't break the marsh tiles lmao
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A 15w with 231 bt is 693 bt per 45w?
That's really bad, especially considering you're not getting the planning bonuses you'd get from GBP or the planning speed from Mobile.
Your org of 35 is much lower than an equivalent MW tank. The HP is also not good. The cost is surprisingly high considering its such a low % of tank, equivalent to a 45w with much better stats, because you have 3 battalions of 36 IC armor meme tanks instead of just 1
You're sacrificing everything for division stats when your battle stats are going to be far worse. 10% attack in virtually every tile is going to matter a lot more than having the slight extra soft attack. Especially considering you're also passing up on premium support companies like Signals
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How does he expect to click a forest tile with that template? flame tanks are very important for tanks
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There's also the consideration that 15w does far worse in practical combat situations than a 45w.
Imagine 3 15w attacking a tile vs a 45w. Each has combined breakthrough matching the opponent's attacks
Damage typically is not spread perfectly evenly. That means that your 15w could be crit due to randomly taking more attacks. If the opponent's coordination is high, this becomes even more likely.
Then, one of the 15w gets deorged due to this and retreats from the battle. Now you're only attacking with 30w of tanks, and so the remaining tanks get crit even harder while you're waiting to reinforce (if you even have reinforcements).
Meanwhile the 45w will keep on attacking until it either wins or loses, and will not get RNG crit
Imagine 3 15w attacking a tile vs a 45w. Each has combined breakthrough matching the opponent's attacks
Damage typically is not spread perfectly evenly. That means that your 15w could be crit due to randomly taking more attacks. If the opponent's coordination is high, this becomes even more likely.
Then, one of the 15w gets deorged due to this and retreats from the battle. Now you're only attacking with 30w of tanks, and so the remaining tanks get crit even harder while you're waiting to reinforce (if you even have reinforcements).
Meanwhile the 45w will keep on attacking until it either wins or loses, and will not get RNG crit
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Sorry, my screenshot was changed a little after I key in the stats. But still it. It is hard to please everyone, when I use other than SF-R-L then people say Sf-R-L is King of MP.
It is for record breaking. Total Org per 45w is 105, total HP per 45w is 331. Yes, it is not wrong. Total 331 HP for 45w.
Too much guess here. Just try it in battle. Of course armor 105 is enough to defeat special AT and 96 is to defeat infantry with 1 line AT . What is "slight extra soft attack"? It is 30% more per width than an MP tank-Mec in this topic. And that attack comes with Armor.
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You also have no flame tank, so how do you expect to break rivers lmao
This come from a man who don't believe in air force and use no plane Soviet? People should ask you how you break river with CAS is on the other side.
I have done no air soviets against good germany players dozens of times, and i am the one holding the river, not breaking it
Literally go watch a dankus soviet game, you will see no air most of the time
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you can. you might not like the result, but you certainly can do it.
does mp really rely on reinforcement enough for signals to be worth your time? they're a complete meme in sp, but maybe it's too hard to compensate for lacking them when you can't pause?
the other potential benefit is coordination, but i'm not convinced this is consistently useful. if opponent is roaching it might even be counterproductive. it depends how much damage you're gaining by concentrating attacks too. coordination is meaningless vs 1 division, and a lot more meaningful when hitting large division count with attacks < sum total of defender defense than when your total attacks >> sum total of target defenses anyway.
i'm not saying his design is a good alternative, but competition in support slots can be pretty fierce. flame tanks, shovels (to reduce terrain penalties), logistics, quite possibly aa, maybe recon (for speed in rough terrain, harder to react)...then you have to napkin math whether signals are likely to outcompete support arty too. also assumes you don't want or need maintenance.
that depends on doctrine and target. the hypothetical you give favors 45w. if you're instead attacking infantry with poor attacks (struggle to damage smaller width too) and are running superior firepower, there's a non-zero chance that smaller divisions get benefit from more total org while also dealing more damage and taking either no more or barely more.
you do run into issues getting clicked by opposing tanks, though given that even 42 to 45w will likely have lower def than tank attacks by a margin as well, mileage may vary even there.
i am constantly told how much small width will bleed, then get 40:1 casualty ratio vs ai with 10w. in mp, small width tanks should be fine until someone clicks them. but we know that the tanks getting clicked on tend to lose. you can at least make a case that, for some doctrines, smaller width isn't *necessarily* wrong. if you win either way when clicking and lose either way when getting clicked, maybe the extra damage/width and faster beatdown on infantry is a worthy tradeoff for the slightly worse performance in tank click exchanges? maybe it isn't. but i think the loss of multipliers on the division due to picking mass assault will likely be more impactful than the width choice itself.
i still think some minor doing roach tanks in egypt that still technically count as infantry divisions would be funny though, and possibly pretty tilting.
does that group ban log strikes?
Nerfed in the mod they play i'm pretty sure, still solid though from what i've seen
i mean its the ai lol, not like the ai is exactly smart
in a tank template you should always have a flame tank imo, the bonuses are just too important considering as an example a decent amount of europe is forest
+ the river bonuses
we all know this, but my point is that intuitions about how much damage is taken at point of attack don't always track to reality. given how ai behaves, it will face-slam your entire line almost no matter what you do (very high forts can convince it not to do that, sometimes). any time it does, that fighting will be the overwhelming majority of casualties. pretty much any division that does tons of damage will only fight in the "line opening" combat briefly. it takes "more" damage, but barely enough to be measurable in comparison to the ai battleplanning across entire line (probably 100 fold duration of combat or more).
and yeah, because penalties are multiplicative the same way attack bonus modifiers are, taking penalties in combat is very harsh. imo it's wild when players rate shovels and flame tanks low as offensive support divisions. it's expensive to put shovels on literally everything, but the first thing i put them on are offensive divisions, because those are the ones that will attack across rivers sometimes too. flame tanks are the same deal...too much benefit when you need the help the most to forego them.
The thing is with flame tanks is that you can just shove 2 mils on it and have more than you need for the whole game, that's one big reason they are so good