Competitive tank division and designs thread

[Corpse Fool]

Wait he's using maxed out tech?

Not completely capped out. Recon is only 3, entrenchment is only 9. I think that leaves 2 recon techs and 1 engi tech unresearched. I don't really want to use the energy to dig into exactly what tier of which artilleries they have, and whether or not they got the support weapons and such. But them capping out AA and AT, infantry AT and getting at least infantry weapons 3, does suggest that they also capped out all the other techs. 230+ SA and 350+ Def on a 15w is also pretty high, if this wasn't maxed techs.

 

[blahmaster6k]

View attachment 976534
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Look at the stat difference on hp and defence, why would you use motorized over mech at this point?

For what it's worth, the motorized division is almost 25% cheaper so there is that, it might help you get a numbers advantage somewhere. I've heard that for some patches some people actually were using motorized instead of mech to counter hard attack stacking, but I'm guessing that isn't the meta anymore and maybe was just a meme in the first place.

But yeah, generally mechanized >>>>> motorized for division quality.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

For what it's worth, the motorized division is almost 25% cheaper so there is that, it might help you get a numbers advantage somewhere. I've heard that for some patches some people actually were using motorized instead of mech to counter hard attack stacking, but I'm guessing that isn't the meta anymore and maybe was just a meme in the first place.

But yeah, generally mechanized >>>>> motorized for division quality.

Don't forget you can cheapen mech, i didn't for this

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Not completely capped out. Recon is only 3, entrenchment is only 9. I think that leaves 2 recon techs and 1 engi tech unresearched. I don't really want to use the energy to dig into exactly what tier of which artilleries they have, and whether or not they got the support weapons and such. But them capping out AA and AT, infantry AT and getting at least infantry weapons 3, does suggest that they also capped out all the other techs. 230+ SA and 350+ Def on a 15w is also pretty high, if this wasn't maxed techs.

Yeah its pretty much near maxed out tech, which is unrealistic for an actual game

 

[blahmaster6k]

Don't forget you can cheapen mech, i didn't for this

You can, but it tanks reliability and competes with land doctrine for army xp (about two doctrines worth to get cost and reliability maxed). It's definitely a good idea to make your mech cheaper, but it does have its drawbacks. Unless mods are making army xp gain much more plentiful than vanilla, where it's pretty hard for most countries to have their land doctrine finished until probably 1942. And mech usually is getting researched in 39-40, so making a variant might set back your doctrine a decent bit. Honestly, there are a lot of things competing for army xp in vanilla compared to mp mods, where in particular template editing is usually made much cheaper or free. But in vanilla you're usually having to spend ~150-200 xp minimum on template editing, 200 making a mech variant, and more on army spirits.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

You can, but it tanks reliability and competes with land doctrine for army xp (about two doctrines worth to get cost and reliability maxed). It's definitely a good idea to make your mech cheaper, but it does have its drawbacks. Unless mods are making army xp gain much more plentiful than vanilla, where it's pretty hard for most countries to have their land doctrine finished until probably 1942. And mech usually is getting researched in 39-40, so making a variant might set back your doctrine a decent bit. Honestly, there are a lot of things competing for army xp in vanilla compared to mp mods, where in particular template editing is usually made much cheaper or free. But in vanilla you're usually having to spend ~150-200 xp minimum on template editing, 200 making a mech variant, and more on army spirits.

Templates are usually free in modded so you have way more xp than usual

 

[Cavalry]

You have no hard attack, how are you going to do anything with this vs 70% hardness tanks?!

If you are holding, you do damage. More hard attack is useless if defender are kicked too fast. Cost is big concern becasue this is regular infantry not special AT.

A stack of 6 inf of this template on a plain tile (fits into plains perfectly) with full entrenchment, gets deorged by the template i posted lmao (with support companies)
2 tanks

Of course in plain all 90w infantry will lose vs these 2 tanks that cost 20 times a infantry division. The question is how long they hold, and how much damage tank get. Need reinformence and more than 90w for plain. And do you forget to move the kicked infantry back?

 

[blahmaster6k]

More hard attack is useless if defender are kicked too fast.

Never seen someone argue that their own troops having low attack is a good thing before, that's a new one.

 

[Cavalry]

Templates are usually free in modded so you have way more xp than usual

That's explain MP people often seek for pre set templates.
So we use MECH with no bonus here too.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

If you are holding, you do damage. More hard attack is useless if defender are kicked too fast. Cost is big concern becasue this is regular infantry not special AT.


Of course in plain all 90w infantry will lose vs these 2 tanks. The question is how long, and how much damage tank get. Need reinformence and more than 90w for plain. And do you forget to move the kicked infantry back?

You also used near maxed out tech in your template, so its even worse

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

That's explain MP people often seek for pre set templates.
So we use MECH with no bonus here too.

When you have 50 mils on mech, its really not that big of a deal, it helps ye, but its not a deal breaker

 

[Cavalry]

Never seen someone argue that their own troops having low attack is a good thing before, that's a new one.

Just read again carefully. By the way the attack per 1000 IC of that division is 3 times more than the MP tank-Mec templates. With the IC of the 2 MP tank we can buy 20 infantry divisions like that.

In some game years ago, many already knows the pure infantry hold longest. If you cannot beat the tank on attack then just beat them on total Org, need about double the total Org of the tank. I just add AA and AT function and use the good width.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Just read again carefully. By the way the attack per 1000 IC of that division is 3 times more than the MP tank-Mec templates. With the IC of the 2 MP tank we can buy 20 infantry divisions like that.

In some game years ago, some already knows the pure infantry hold longest. If you cannot beat the tank on attack then just beat them on total Org, about double the total Org of the tank. I just add AA and AT function.

???? You have jack all hard attack, you do no damage to that tank lmao

 

[Cavalry]

You also used near maxed out tech in your template, so its even worse

I said 1943 tech, what'wrong. Some tech I don't click because it didn't change the points I calculated. If you are defending you research the defending techs.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

I said 1943 tech, what'wrong. Some tech I don't click because it didn't change the points I calculated. If you are defending you research the defending techs.

You are aware that is impractical to have that tech unless you are playing the long game right? You will not have the tech by barb, and the soviets will slaughter your inf with 1k+ soft attack tanks lmao

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

This is like building a tanks as japan for the china war and saying "why do i have no supply"

 

[Corpse Fool]

I've heard that for some patches some people actually were using motorized instead of mech to counter hard attack stacking

Was that back when they had super-buffed trucks? 20% base hardness (40% after mek1), and +10 breakthrough?

Just read again carefully. By the way the attack per 1000 IC of that division is 3 times more than the MP tank-Mec templates. With the IC of the 2 MP tank we can buy 20 infantry divisions like that.

In some game years ago, some already knows the pure infantry hold longest. If you cannot beat the tank on attack then just beat them on total Org, need about double the total Org of the tank. I just add AA and AT function and use the good width.

This is just the whole attacks*org thing. All the attacks and no org, don't spend long enough in combat to actually leverage the attacks. No attacks and all the org, spend forever in combat but have such a low output that you still don't achieve much. There is generally a 'happy medium' somewhere between the two extremes, and probably leaning a bit more towards the attacks side.

The point of pure infantry defenders isn't specifically to win the combats, its to hold for as long as possible and allow either CAS to deal the damage, your own tanks to counter attack, or your QRF to replace the basic line infantry in the combat.

 

[Cavalry]

This is just the whole attacks*org thing.

That's pre NSB and need enough AA, AT too. After NSB we can have these 14-16w and Org should be no big problem. Probably the Defense*(Org/2) is working for infantry vs tank attack*Org

As long as they hold, they do damage to tank. The soft attack is doing 30% damage but they are almost +50% free here in SF-R doctrine.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Was that back when they had super-buffed trucks? 20% base hardness (40% after mek1), and +10 breakthrough?

I would assume so, motorized is worse than mech in every way stat wise, but back then it was better lmao

 

[Cavalry]

Now the Record Breaking Division that incorporated the latest tricks in designs and templates. And this still pay attention to Cost. A hard attack version later. Armor 110 is enough to laugh at all the AT gun and MOT AT.
Doctrines use: SF-R-L
Anti infantry capacity
- Division Armor stats (min 51 or 57): 120.2
Division soft attack per 1000 IC: 81
- Division soft attack per 45 width: 980
- Speed: 8.2
- Hardness: 45%
Anti tank capacity:
- Piercing: 135.1
- Total attack per 45 width vs 50% harness: 744
- Total attack per 45 width vs 70% harness: 630
- Breakthrough per 45w: 695
- Total attack per 1 supply use vs 50% harness: 223
- Defense per 45 width: 690
- IC per 45 w: 12117

Tank Design: