Competitive tank division and designs thread

[Cavalry]

or cut mech for mot which also is a terrible idea because mech is vital for a good tank division

Which stats that need mech very much, can I have an example to compare?

Sorry my English, when I said "competitive" I mean for comparision with each other. But some thinks I refer to MP. Though MP version is quick to change.
OK I will add another: Total attack vs 70% hardness tank for the previous posted templates.

 

[Cavalry]

The whole point of a tank is to not be clicked by inf lmao

They should use infantry to click you if they don't have tank. They don't need to do damage but make your tanks suffer -50% penalty for in 2 battles same time.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

They should use infantry to click you if they don't have tank. They don't need to do damage but make your tanks suffer -50% penalty for in 2 battles same time.

Good luck breaking the stalin line without tanks lmao

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

They should use infantry to click you if they don't have tank. They don't need to do damage but make your tanks suffer -50% penalty for in 2 battles same time.

Any decent USSR player will hold a line like this, or a variant of it
Marsh tiles with entrenched tanks are really hard to break

 

[Alexander 'The Grape']

Which stats that need mech very much, can I have an example to compare?

Sorry my English, when I said "competitive" I mean for comparision with each other. But some thinks I refer to MP. Though MP version is quick to change.
OK I will add another: Total attack vs 70% hardness tank for the previous posted templates.

Mech is primarily needed for HP and defence.

With less HP, your tanks will take much more losses in combat. As such, they will be far more expensive to maintain and lose strength quickly in combat, limiting their effectiveness.

Defence means you will take more damage when clicked by enemy tanks, reducing your ability to click them back afterwards as they will have more org remaining due to you being clicked faster, and also compounds the losses issue from having less HP.

They also add additional Hard Attack and Breakthrough than Motorized, though this is a secondary bonus

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Mech is primarily needed for HP and defence.

With less HP, your tanks will take much more losses in combat. As such, they will be far more expensive to maintain and lose strength quickly in combat, limiting their effectiveness.

Defence means you will take more damage when clicked by enemy tanks, reducing your ability to click them back afterwards as they will have more org remaining due to you being clicked faster, and also compounds the losses issue from having less HP.

They also add additional Hard Attack and Breakthrough than Motorized, though this is a secondary bonus

There's pretty much no reason not to mech your tanks if you can well, make mech
Germany v USSR, both sides usually will have fully meched tanks by barb (if the players aren't bad)

 

[Cavalry]

Mech is primarily needed for HP and defence.

Ah well, defense is my attention. As you see, the tank have a good ratio of MOT. They have HP too.

 

[Corpse Fool]

They should use infantry to click you if they don't have tank. They don't need to do damage but make your tanks suffer -50% penalty for in 2 battles same time.

'click' in this context isn't just issuing the attack order. Clicking generally refers to the result, where you just click (with tanks) and push the enemy off the tile.

One of the main reasons that tanks gets used, is that they have the stats to make it such that they can actually just 'click' enemy infantry out of the way. And when it comes to tank v tank, the attacker (clicker) is usually the winner.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Good luck breaking the stalin line without tanks lmao

i think it's probably possible using sf or gbp germany. you can dump a lot of attacks, and marine + makeshift bridge + shovel + flame tank support means that even hitting forests across major river crossing you can still output a lot of damage (miserable for tanks), meaning more valid spots to attack.

routing units off the line in a few spots and actually advancing in a meaningful way/winning the war are different matters, though. but i think a really strong micro player (like a starcraft export or something) on a long line like this could very likely use infantry divisions with enough soft attacks to prevent reserves filling in, and still put up significant micro resistance vs tanks with sheer volume of inputs.

i also expect the same player will perform much better if using tanks.

One of the main reasons that tanks gets used, is that they have the stats to make it such that they can actually just 'click' enemy infantry out of the way.

a lot of this comes down to the fact that it's just too expensive to run infantry divisions that can wall tanks at scale, and impractical to try to move at infantry setups around on wide fronts to answer where the tanks are. there are "infantry" divisions where clicking with a tank will lose, but they're not feasible to use in pvp...players will just go around and you can't possibly make enough of these where going around isn't an option afaik.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Ah well, defense is my attention. As you see, the tank have a good ratio of MOT. They have HP too.

Look at the stat difference on hp and defence, why would you use motorized over mech at this point?

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

i think it's probably possible using sf or gbp germany. you can dump a lot of attacks, and marine + makeshift bridge + shovel + flame tank support means that even hitting forests across major river crossing you can still output a lot of damage (miserable for tanks), meaning more valid spots to attack.

routing units off the line in a few spots and actually advancing in a meaningful way/winning the war are different matters, though. but i think a really strong micro player (like a starcraft export or something) on a long line like this could very likely use infantry divisions with enough soft attacks to prevent reserves filling in, and still put up significant micro resistance vs tanks with sheer volume of inputs.

i also expect the same player will perform much better if using tanks.


a lot of this comes down to the fact that it's just too expensive to run infantry divisions that can wall tanks at scale, and impractical to try to move at infantry setups around on wide fronts to answer where the tanks are. there are "infantry" divisions where clicking with a tank will lose, but they're not feasible to use in pvp...players will just go around and you can't possibly make enough of these where going around isn't an option afaik.

"i also expect the same player will perform much better if using tanks." pretty much this, if your that good at micro just use tanks, you will perform better with tanks than just inf

 

[Alexander 'The Grape']

View attachment 976534
View attachment 976535
Look at the stat difference on hp and defence, why would you use motorized over mech at this point?

60 more hard attack as well!

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

60 more hard attack as well!

This is BEFORE including the bog standard support companies as well, and doctrine
If you use pure mot against mech ussr with high velocity cannon, your tanks will just get clicked

 

[Cavalry]

Bonus, Regular infantry with AT gun for MP.

I compared several templates and this is probably the best and still cheap. They hold by total Province Org, high defense, enough piercing and AA. Attack is the last concern, though this have some of the highest attack for infantry vs 70% hardness. Line AA may be needed if enemy get high air superiority. In that case if need to choose between line AA and line AT then choose line AA for regular infantry and have some special AT divisions.

Total attack vs 70% hardness: 8 per width, 720 per 90w

Doctrines: SF-R-L

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Bonus, Regular infantry with AT gun for MP.

I compared several templates and this is probably the best and still cheap. They hold by total Province Org, high defense, enough piercing and AA. Attack is the last concern, though this have some of the highest attack for infantry vs 70% hardness. Line AA may be needed if enemy get high air superiority. In that case if need to choose between line AA and line AT then choose line AA for regular infantry and have some special AT divisions.

View attachment 976537

Doctrines: SF-R-L

You have no hard attack, how are you going to do anything with this vs 70% hardness tanks?!

 

[Alexander 'The Grape']

Also, what are the tech and doctrine assumptions for these templates? Does 1943 tech include gun passives? They can have a massive impact on the final stats

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Also, what are the tech and doctrine assumptions for these templates? Does 1943 tech include gun passives? They can have a massive impact on the final stats

It was using up to 1940 tech on gun passives on my templates

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Bonus, Regular infantry with AT gun for MP.

I compared several templates and this is probably the best and still cheap. They hold by total Province Org, high defense, enough piercing and AA. Attack is the last concern, though this have some of the highest attack for infantry vs 70% hardness. Line AA may be needed if enemy get high air superiority. In that case if need to choose between line AA and line AT then choose line AA for regular infantry and have some special AT divisions.

View attachment 976537

Doctrines: SF-R-L

A stack of 6 inf of this template on a plain tile (fits into plains perfectly) with full entrenchment, gets deorged by the template i posted lmao (with support companies)
2 tanks

 

[Corpse Fool]

Also, what are the tech and doctrine assumptions for these templates? Does 1943 tech include gun passives? They can have a massive impact on the final stats

Just look at the AA value. 35.2 AA with only support AA, is capped out on AA tech (AA3 is 32, 35.2/32=1.1. Support is -20%, so we need +30% to get to 1.1). I imagine this is one of the contributing factors to how they got piercing so high, AA3 with its 88 piercing. And of course, also capped out AT tech. Not only the AT tech, but also the infantry AT weapons.

You can only get to 93 piercing if the engineers and recon there have IE3 for 10 piercing, and the infantry battalions have 30 piercing.

 

[TruckerBarry65493]

Just look at the AA value. 35.2 AA with only support AA, is capped out on AA tech (AA3 is 32, 35.2/32=1.1. Support is -20%, so we need +30% to get to 1.1). I imagine this is one of the contributing factors to how they got piercing so high, AA3 with its 88 piercing. And of course, also capped out AT tech. Not only the AT tech, but also the infantry AT weapons.

You can only get to 93 piercing if the engineers and recon there have IE3 for 10 piercing, and the infantry battalions have 30 piercing.

Wait he's using maxed out tech?