"Competing Great Power" Crap

[Sarenarass]

So I've started a new campaign as Venice. My goal was to make as much money as possible and.. etc. Well, I have been allied with France since practically the start of the game. We've been best BUDS. I have helped them in every single stupid war they have started and I have only called them into one of my wars (which they accepted). Most recently I joined them in a ridiculous war because I'm such a good guy.

It was:

France, Venice, Savoy vs Spain, Austria, Naples, Castillan West Indies, Florida, New Spain, Cologne, Genoa, Tuscany.

So thanks in part to me blockading pretty much all of Spain and all of Austria, Naples, Genoa.. etc. We were able to win! Then less than a year later they break their alliance with me. What? Why? We had been sitting on around 180 relationship for about two centuries! What could possibly come between us best friends? I just helped you win some massive war that YOU STARTED. Bam, competing great power. Only brought us down to 150ish, we're still CORDIAL. Then France breaks their alliance with me! Even after breaking the alliance we're still cordial. Then Bohemia, my only other ally (besides the Knights... I like keeping them alive) breaks their alliance with me too! Again, competing great power crap.

We're still cordial. So our interests are same and we both have extremely good relations and have had them for ages SO Y U DO THIS!? YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!?!?@#!?!@#

Stupidstupidstupid. Now I'm alone... alone.

And no one but the people I was allied with like me. (Only Savoy and the Knights didn't break my heart)

 

[Alliegorical]

They like you, but they also see you as a competitor and are reluctant to help you grow any more powerful than you already are. Working as intended. Not all is lost; since they trust you utterly, rivaling one of their rivals may be enough to entice them to resume the alliance.

 

[Sarenarass]

I have rival'd with two of their rivals! Austria and Spain. My last rival is the Mamlukes, used to be the Ottomans. Also, I haven't done any expanding in about 30 years. Meanwhile France has been expanding like crazy and I helped them! Hardly seems like a way to treat a long time ally.

 

[penquin11]

The competing great power modifier doesn't make much sense to me. It makes it damn near impossible for the player as a nation such as Spain to integrate a powerful Aragon that is in a PU...

And god forbid that 2 or more great powers emerge in the Holy Roman Empire (looking at you Bohemia, Brandenburg, and Austria) while you are a third party (or fourth party in this case) Emperor. This is especially bad if Austria isn't the 3rd great power (aside from yourself) and one of the other electors are (say Bavaria becomes powerful).

Also, if someone gets the insane idea of playing as the Netherlands, and attempts to ally England to protect themselves from the BBB....

It also sucks late in MP that have a solid number of players that are great powers- as the great wars that used to end the MP games (where 3-5 great powers would face off against 3-5 other great powers in a giant war) are now much harder to secure because of the relations requirement for forming an alliance. This isn't a HUGE problem, and in most cases it doesn't really get in the way, but I did have one game as the Ottomans where the Great Power malus, plus the different Government & Religious malus's (as well as AE malus) made it impossible for me to ally with a player lead Novgorod.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

They like you, but they also see you as a competitor and are reluctant to help you grow any more powerful than you already are. Working as intended. Not all is lost; since they trust you utterly, rivaling one of their rivals may be enough to entice them to resume the alliance.

Except that it isn't, because it's being patched to work differently .

 

[Alliegorical]

Oh my bad, I didn't notice the 'enemy of my enemy', and I even looked for it! *facepalm*

Probably has to do with the fact that I was awake all night cramming for a chemistry exam (totally crushed it too =D)

 

[Sarenarass]

Except that it isn't, because it's being patched to work differently .

Oh my bad, I didn't notice the 'enemy of my enemy', and I even looked for it! *facepalm*

Probably has to do with the fact that I was awake all night cramming for a chemistry exam (totally crushed it too =D)

Well, that's both good news! Lol. But there should really be some really slowly ticking "Long time ally/friend" modifier that goes up over time. It can cap at say 25 or so but.. come on. We have been allies for generations! And all because of some concept of me being a "great power"

King Louis: Hm, Venice did just help us secure Parma and we have been allies for over two hundred years. Our alliance is beneficiary to both parties but he is a great power. Cannot ally with a great power! That's just derpderp derp. *presses cancel alliance button*

Worse yet now I don't have any strong allies and Austria and Spain are probably going to go for me now. It also seems France has abandoned me to ally with Denmark ? What. They just allied with Denmark even though they are also a Great Power, heretic religion, AND at 80 less opinion of each other than me and France were prior to the split. COME ON, gimme your explanations now. Just try.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

The change is that it will be -50 instead of -100, and current alliances won't break over it. The ticking idea was suggested, but I guess they wanted it simpler.

I still think what constitutes a "great power" also needs work. Adal is still not a great power in 1454 - 1460, I don't care what the player does.

 

[TheRevanchist]

The AI does not feel.

 

[dstarsboy]

It's not the "competing great power" modifier that killed your alliance, it's their alliance with Denmark that did it.

You officially became a great power and the AI can only ever have one great power as their ally. Thus, they chose Denmark over you and that's that. Why they chose Denmark over you is a different story... I'm guessing proximity maybe or it could be Denmark's army/fleet size compared to yours.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

What, have basic rules of the game clearly documented?

Nah, we can't have that.

 

[fleetothemoon]

What, have basic rules of the game clearly documented?

Nah, we can't have that.

Sadly, one would have to stay around the forums to actually understand a lot of the in-game mechanics. At least we got a working wiki though.

To the OP: It has been noted that the whole great power thing will be toned down a bit. Although I would say, as a general rule, don't get to attached to your allies. Aint no bromance gonna be happening whether you sit by the side and watch the show or go full in and siege every province for them.

Or put better this way:

The AI does not feel.

 

[Sarenarass]

It's not the "competing great power" modifier that killed your alliance, it's their alliance with Denmark that did it.

You officially became a great power and the AI can only ever have one great power as their ally. Thus, they chose Denmark over you and that's that. Why they chose Denmark over you is a different story... I'm guessing proximity maybe or it could be Denmark's army/fleet size compared to yours.

Well, I have the largest navy in the world so it had to be their army size or something.