Community brainstorm AoWP

[Fluksen]

[...]Return Fire sounds like a reasonable idea. I play Infinity, so shooting back is a "Yes, please!" for me.
Not too sold on the idea of extra action points. Seems a game-breaker.
The scaffold sounds just plain fun.

Funny for me it's quite the other way round:
- Autoreturning fire? No! too easy to abuse, you park a unit behind cover, shoot at your enemy who autoreturns but does hardly any damage because you are behind cover and he isn't?! wtf. I'm all for abilities like "taunt" and whatnot but making auto-return fire a normal thing doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Also there are stagger abilities and other stuff that will drain action points. So this is absolutely not needed.

- Extra action points with abilities: This was already a thing in Age of Wonders (spells like rejuvinate and quick dash, abilities like invigorate) and then there were tireless and sprint which you could count as extra actions too. AoW:SM also had double strike none of those broke the game and since I expect action points to play quite a big role in planetfall I hope extra actions will make it in! I'd also be fine if some units just had more action points than others by default, why not?

- On the scaffolding might already be in the game, I mean there already are exploding cars. I'm fine with that.

 

[Quark02]

Funny for me it's quite the other way round:
- Autoreturning fire? No! too easy to abuse, you park a unit behind cover, shoot at your enemy who autoreturns but does hardly any damage because you are behind cover and he isn't?! wtf. I'm all for abilities like "taunt" and whatnot but making auto-return fire a normal thing doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Also there are stagger abilities and other stuff that will drain action points. So this is absolutely not needed.

I'd assume it isn't strictly 'auto' - either opt-in or opt-out. Or that there is a chance of it being triggered based on the probability of it actually being useful. In any case, I'd argue against its exploitability since triggering it towards a defended unit still uses up a unit that one would otherwise use to shoot at something else.

I imagine this ability would be useful on town defense (reaction fire unit behind wall cover) or on open ground (little cover for either side), less useful in sieging. Units with this trait would be good in defense, not that much in offense.

On a similar note, is it still the weird system where the only unit that can be hit by an attack is the unit being attacked or is collateral damage coming back? Using multiple-shot units (e.g archers/minigunners) to aim at someone at the back of a row to get a chance to kill or hurt multiple units in a single attack was a major point in AoW and AoW2, really disappointed that it was lost in AoW3. You could maybe get grazing hits on the units in the line of fire?

 

[Leon Feargus]

Return Fire sounds like a reasonable idea. I play Infinity, so shooting back is a "Yes, please!" for me.

Not too sold on the idea of extra action points. Seems a game-breaker.

The scaffold sounds just plain fun.

Extra Strike was a potent ability in AoW1, but not game-breaking I think. Also, as Fluksen said, there were various kinds of extra actions implemented in AoW3 and all worked well.

Funny for me it's quite the other way round:
- Autoreturning fire? No! too easy to abuse, you park a unit behind cover, shoot at your enemy who autoreturns but does hardly any damage because you are behind cover and he isn't?! wtf. I'm all for abilities like "taunt" and whatnot but making auto-return fire a normal thing doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Also there are stagger abilities and other stuff that will drain action points. So this is absolutely not needed.

- Extra action points with abilities: This was already a thing in Age of Wonders (spells like rejuvinate and quick dash, abilities like invigorate) and then there were tireless and sprint which you could count as extra actions too. AoW:SM also had double strike none of those broke the game and since I expect action points to play quite a big role in planetfall I hope extra actions will make it in! I'd also be fine if some units just had more action points than others by default, why not?

- On the scaffolding might already be in the game, I mean there already are exploding cars. I'm fine with that.

I was thinking of Return Fire as a special unit ability, not for general purpose of all ranged units. You make a good point about possible abuse but I still think it would be worth testing.
I like the idea of variable action points for units. The Kirko could have a Bugger with the Pinpricks ability, meaning that it can attack several opponents in succession with a total amount of 10 action points, each action doing no more than 1 damage.

I'd assume it isn't strictly 'auto' - either opt-in or opt-out. Or that there is a chance of it being triggered based on the probability of it actually being useful. In any case, I'd argue against its exploitability since triggering it towards a defended unit still uses up a unit that one would otherwise use to shoot at something else.

I imagine this ability would be useful on town defense (reaction fire unit behind wall cover) or on open ground (little cover for either side), less useful in sieging. Units with this trait would be good in defense, not that much in offense.

On a similar note, is it still the weird system where the only unit that can be hit by an attack is the unit being attacked or is collateral damage coming back? Using multiple-shot units (e.g archers/minigunners) to aim at someone at the back of a row to get a chance to kill or hurt multiple units in a single attack was a major point in AoW and AoW2, really disappointed that it was lost in AoW3. You could maybe get grazing hits on the units in the line of fire?

I agree. I liked the collateral damage from the first games.

 

[Fluksen]

[...] I was thinking of Return Fire as a special unit ability, not for general purpose of all ranged units. [...]

Ah ok I have misunderstood it then. As for return fire as a special ability, there is going to be an "overwatch" ability if i understand that correctly a unit in overwatch mode will "guard" an area and everything that moves in there will be shot at. Similar enough for me
And not quite sure if they said something about collateral damage, but with grazing and miss chances my guess is that collateral has a good chance of coming back.

 

[Gloweye]

Yep, overwatch will fill that point. It'll allow you to fire a shot at anybody within range that moves or attacks.

 

[sikbok]

Here are some more of my ideas:

Return Fire (unit ability):
When this ranged unit is attacked from range it will spend action points to shoot back. During the next turn its action points will be reduced. This should basically work exactly the same as the retaliation system for melee units.

Funny for me it's quite the other way round:
- Autoreturning fire? No! too easy to abuse, you park a unit behind cover, shoot at your enemy who autoreturns but does hardly any damage because you are behind cover and he isn't?! wtf.

Yep, overwatch will fill that point. It'll allow you to fire a shot at anybody within range that moves or attacks.

​

Some selective quotes here to support my argument.

We actually tried something like return fire early - many, many moons ago - in development. It was part of the 'how do we make mostly ranged combat work' prototyping. Return fire started out as a form of ranged retaliation. However, it didn't work as great. In large part due to the issues Fluksen pointed out. Easy to drain action points and shooting at stuff that's likely in cover.

We settled on an overwatch system, which is something of an pre-emptive, opt-in retaliation.

Extra Strike was a potent ability in AoW1, but not game-breaking I think.

I remember always going for Extra Strike in combination with High Attack/Damage, First Strike and Life Stealing. With Life Stealing being an uncapped % that worked out pretty good. Arguably it was the Life Stealing that was game-breaking though : )>

 

[BloodyBattleBrain]

The bonus there being that "overwatch" is already understood by anyone who's played Xcom, so the mechanics is easy to communicate, meaning less headscratching over the rules and more headscratching over what to do.

 

[Leon Feargus]

It has been mentioned somewhere before but a faction of sentient plants would be cool.
Of course they should have a fireball spitting artillery unit.

They could make use of mechanically moving greenhouse transports, otherwise they would be rather static perhaps.
Their basic infantry might spray Helicopter Seeds that hampers opponents and can be augmented with a Razorblades module to inflict more damage and Bleeding.

Old druid tricks like vines and entanglement could be central to their gameplay.

 

[Thrake]

Old druid tricks like vines

Do you mean inebriating to death or spreading adulterated wine?

On a more serious note if I had to go that way I would go with a parasitic thema, and/or symbiotic one which is conceptually pretty close (two entities interacting, most commonly very small organism with big organism, one is beneful to both and one is one-way profit). It has a modern/futurist feel with biologic weapons and bacterium are known for that but it can also involve fungus/algeae. That's a bit light so could be bundled as buff/debuff/environmental adaptability (different buff depending on the local "weather") on top of a more classic druidic feel. You could also bundle unit synergy (think elf faction of HOMM where faeries and ents can heal one another, that kind of thing, that would be a good way to make T1 useful even in late game...).

 

[lwarmonger]

A semi-sentient planet type like in alpha centauri. Perhaps the result of a Union Research and Development project into genetically modified intelligence. The more you expand and developers the world (you being all factions) the harsher nature's reaction. Potentially add in a primitives NPC faction (like avatar) that is also linked to this reaction.

This gives each faction some choices... primarily to either fight nature, go along with it, or adopt some middle ground.

Not applicable in every game, but in some during the planet generation options.

 

[Leyrann]

A semi-sentient planet type like in alpha centauri. Perhaps the result of a Union Research and Development project into genetically modified intelligence. The more you expand and developers the world (you being all factions) the harsher nature's reaction. Potentially add in a primitives NPC faction (like avatar) that is also linked to this reaction.

This gives each faction some choices... primarily to either fight nature, go along with it, or adopt some middle ground.

Not applicable in every game, but in some during the planet generation options.

That probably wouldn't work thematically because you're on a planet that was formerly inhabited by the Star Union, so nature already had to deal with that in the past.

 

[lwarmonger]

Right... this is more like a genetic experiment gone wrong after it was abandoned. However, I think this could go into a more thematic setting for each world type.

Jungle could have this as a theme available for it. A desert planet could have a "dune" like spice trade. There could be an arctic world theme... etc. Not for every planet type, but for some of them.

 

[Leyrann]

Right... this is more like a genetic experiment gone wrong after it was abandoned. However, I think this could go into a more thematic setting for each world type.

Jungle could have this as a theme available for it. A desert planet could have a "dune" like spice trade. There could be an arctic world theme... etc. Not for every planet type, but for some of them.

Then we get into the question if planets should have a single biome.

The only example we have, earth, includes all biomes from ice to rainforest.

 

[lwarmonger]

Then we get into the question if planets should have a single biome.

The only example we have, earth, includes all biomes from ice to rainforest.

In the dev diaries it seems to indicate that is an option already. But planet themes dont necessarily need to be tied to a single biome, although that would help with many of them.

 

[Damkac]

Right... this is more like a genetic experiment gone wrong after it was abandoned. However, I think this could go into a more thematic setting for each world type.

Or this could be explained that the Star Union somehow tamed the sentient planet and after SU is gone the planet can act again.

 

[Fluksen]

Picking up on comments of BBB and terrycloth in the city spam thread

If you are the host your orders get processed a smidgen faster iirc.
Anyway the fast clicking is on the border of good play and exploit.
At the end of your turn, hover your mouse over the stack you want to move. Have heir move path ready.
As soon as the next turn starts, click your stack and either press my to start them moving, or double click the destination.
It ties into split stacking.
Those 2 are why the 15 second rule was brought in. That's not a perfect solution by any means because enforcing it is a pain.
[...]

couldn't it be an option to add "no attack movements possible within the first x seconds each turn" in the options? Would save the "pain to enforce it"?

It sounds like simultaneous turns is a terrible idea for multiplayer. Didn't Civ fix it by having them only be simultaneous if you weren't at war with someone?

This switch from simultaneous to classic turns in game depending on diplomatic state seems a nice idea for Planetfall too maybe? (with the player that declares war moving 2nd of course).

But most of all I would like an in game lobby, come on triumph/paradox even the settlers 3 had an in game lobby and that game was released in the last millenium...

Otherwise:

Sentinent plants [...] They could make use of mechanically moving greenhouse transports, otherwise they would be rather static perhaps.

pretty cool idea, but why greenhouse transporters? Why not make it one big mushroom/tree organism that has to spread across the map and the units can be grown everywhere it has spread but are really slow on short distances (e.g. they can dissolve their army at one end of their realm and regrow it on the other end within 3 turns - much faster than any other army could move this distance, but on short distances and the tactical map they are much slower than walking armies). Would add quite a unique gameplay and their flyers would basically be scouts and seeds that can transverse obstacles such as lava or whatnot impassable terrain to colonize terrain not reachable by the spread.

 

[Thrake]

What I would like in planetfall is a way to organize troops in a stack. In AOW3 I believe that order in the stack is determined on experience of individual units. I remember it was talked in AOW3 as a way to keep fast-paced combats. I won't argue with that, so I tried to think of ways to have controls without having to always manage it every battle.

The first idea is simply to let the player organize units in a stack. The actual formation in battle does not change, it would only allow the player to change unit order on the world map (which translates into unit formation in battle). The base formation I want is pretty much always the same with shooters shooting from behind,... so this simple feature would let me setup a gross formation in a more organic fashion.

The other idea is close to how some RPG handle party formation (pillars of eternity does that for exemple), basically you've got a grid and you position your guys on that grid. Then they will always keep that formation. So you don't setup at every battle but do it once on the world map, for good. It's more flexible than the previous system but requires more involvment from the player. Also it does not require any prior knowledge of where unit position of the stack translates into starting position in battle unlike the previous system.

 

[Fluksen]

In AoW2 shadow magic the nomads could pack their cities making a caravan and move. Now with the new sector system and only predetermined places that cities can be build I don't know how good that would work in Planetfall, but it was a really really cool concept and if it makes any sense I'd love to see that return
Other ideas:
- One or more factions (maybe Vanguard, Dvar or assembly) could build some/all of their city-improvements/buildings as shippable modules. So you can build it in one city and then ship it to another (via a caravan like unit, or with a mechanism like moving the throne in AoW3) so you could ship buildings like the warhall (in AoW3) to your front city to have units produced closer to the battlefront or evacuate your buildings from a city you expect to fall.
- Have a faction (maybe Kir'Ko) that has living buildings (e.g. watchtowers, forts) that can't fight, or move, but reproduce (e.g. spend resource X and the watchtower will send a spore to any field within vision and Y turns later a new watchtower has grown on that position).
- Have buildings that can alter the environment on the strategic map E.g. if you take the promethean tech maybe your watchtowers/forts could get an upgrade option so that you can use resource X to have Y hexes within the towers vision range burn for Z turns.

 

[Leon Feargus]

I was thinking about something that might be cool for an expansion. It may be a bit far-fetched but please, bear with me.

Age of Wonders Planetfall: Back to base!
Adds a whole new style of strategic maps. The location to explore is not a planet but a planet-sized space-station. The overall look would be more mechanical, with perhaps some different interior design for different factions. It could have some of the same structures and some new ones, such as vaults (resources), armories (modules), tech-labs (research), med-bay (healing), comms-room (reinforcements). Passageways may be sealed by gates, which can be opened in several ways (keycard/hacking/control-room/explosives). Holding a control-room could give advantages like spying on enemy players, closing gates, operating stationary guns/turrets, disabling lights in certain sections or even disabling life-support, while gaining access to Central Control could be an endgame trigger. The station can be spherical like the main game but it could also be more akin to AoW3 continents setting, where instead of water there would be void (only flying, mechanical units), or islands setting with teleporters to move from one section to another.

What would be particularly awesome is to surprise players by having the final level of the main campaign be a sample of the expansion.
(although I have now spoiled the surprise for some, sorry about that)

 

[BloodyBattleBrain]

In AoW2 shadow magic the nomads could pack their cities making a caravan and move. Now with the new sector system and only predetermined places that cities can be build I don't know how good that would work in Planetfall, but it was a really really cool concept and if it makes any sense I'd love to see that return

I could see a faction that has nomadic cities but which don't have the potential to grow into really uber, super cities.

So the player can move their cities at will (and therefore use any sector) but the cities are slow to develop . Alternately, a "form horde" feature like in AttilaTotal war, where your faction can become nomadic, gaining some free troops etc but losing the city entirely, until you resettle. Infact, seeing as how that was a Barbarian feature, I can see it working in a sci fi environment with "Space pirates."

- Have a faction (maybe Kir'Ko) that has living buildings (e.g. watchtowers, forts) that can't fight, or move, but reproduce (e.g. spend resource X and the watchtower will send a spore to any field within vision and Y turns later a new watchtower has grown on that position).

I think the Insect Kir'ko are more district Nine Aiens, as opposed to Zerg or Tyrannid. Imho that leaves room for a zerg like race where your cities are your top tier units, e.g. Cerebrates, as opposed to Hives.

So your top tier unit is your settler and your best fighter/support/whatever.

Assume you start the game with this unit, and you have an interesting decision - settle down, creating a city, or use it as a combat unit. If they were cerebrates or Queens or whatever, you can have a limited number of them, and when they are dead, that is you done (as opposed to Throne mechanic, i.e. this would be a faction unique loss condition)

EDIT: seeing as we're wishlisting stuff, how about assymetric start conditions for players. So one player may start with no city but 2 settlers, other player has 1 city and a settler, 3rd and 4th players have 2 cities.

That kind of thing. Advantages of 2 settlers are you get to choose a good city start, whereas your start city might otherwise be non optimally placed. Downside is you are behind a couple of turns economically...


UNLESS, player starting with Settlers happens to be a horde faction?