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This Sunday will be the Memorial Day for the Victims of the Communist Regime in Hungary.(maybe all over the world,but not sure)In 1944. the Soviet troops invaded Hungary,and Eastern Europe.They say it was liberation.Yes,they liberated the countries from the fascist regimes.That’s a fact.But if someone liberates a nation,he will leave the country he liberated.But the Soviets didn’t.They only left after the collapse of the „Empire”.And they forced the Eastern European states to choose a communist goverment.Tiny Stalinist nations,with only one party,the Party.It was advisable to join the party.And they began a cleaning.Like Lenin and his comrades did.They executed the people served the old regimes(not only nazis),and they began the new Holocaust.Millions were forced to leave their homes,in East-Prussia hundred thousands(millions) of Germans were murdered,to make Königsberg a Russian city.In Czehslovakia with the Benes-edict Gertmans in the Sudetas and Hungarians in the south of Slovakia became secondary citizens.Or they forced to leave their mother home.Even members of democratic parties were jailed or murdered.So the communist postions became strong.They also jailed civilians,or murdered them,lots were taken to death-camps in Siberia.But of course there were labour camps in all of the countries.During the 50’,60’s people were also jailed,terror was everywhere.In 1956 they crushed the Hungarian revolution,the country’s prime minister was executed by the Soviets,hundreds were executed,thousands jailed.Even teenagers.In 1968.the Czehslovakian revolution was also crushed.From the 70’S and 80’S in most of the countries there was something called „mild dictatorship”.It was mild for you,if you were silent ,if you didn’t do anything against the opression.But only a word,and you were in trouble.They had informers everywhere.
Finally,in 1989. the regimes collapsed,but none of them paid for the crimes.You should have a question:Why?And there’S no answer.

Remember the victims in these days,and do something against those who served these regimes.Stop for a minute and ask:Why?

Fascists did pay,and fascism has been crushed.Maybe taking communists to a court,we would crush commmunism forever.But without precedents in ALL cases,there’S a chance they’ll return.
 

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I don't like Communism. In fact I hate it and what it has done. Sadly these criminals will never face justice. There is simply no support for action against old communists, at least not in Western Europe/USA. That's a shame.
 
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Remember the victims in these days,and do something against those who served these regimes.Stop for a minute and ask:Why?
Because revisionists regimes in states like hungary joined the Nazis in an allience and declared war on the Soviet Union ?
 

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By John O'Sullivan

February 4, 2003, 1:35 p.m.
Preemptive Force
The Museum of Terror is a treasure.

BUDAPEST, HUNGARY — Andrassy Street is a stylish boulevard, comparable to New York's Fifth Avenue or London's Regent Street, in this fashionable capital city at the heart of what Donald Rumsfeld calls "the new Europe" — that is, the former Communist satellites now enjoying their 14th year of freedom

Freedom's economic benefits are glitteringly obvious on Andrassy Street in the form of designer label shops, smart restaurants, inviting pastry shops, and the impressive public buildings now being washed free of the gray Communist grime that until recently besmirched them. A stroll down Andrassy Street, stopping occasionally to buy a book or sip a glass of sweet Tokay wine, is one of the great minor pleasures of life even in the chill of winter.

Even in summer, however, one building emits a distinct and sinister chill of its own.

Number 60 Andrassy Street was once, during the Second World War, the headquarters and torture chamber of the fascist Arrow Cross Party that in 1944 was given power by the Nazis and during its brief rule helped Adolf Eichmann to murder hundreds of thousands of Jews.

Nor did Number 60 Andrassy Street change its character with the end of the war. When the Hungarian Communist party seized power in 1947, it became the headquarters and torture chamber of the notorious AVO communist secret police — and the symbol of a remarkable (though not unprecedented) fascist-communist collaboration.

For Hungary's Communists, having obtained the membership lists of the Arrow Cross party, presented defeated fascists with a unique communist party application form: it invited the applicant to confess the "mistake" of his Arrow Cross past as a preliminary to becoming a good Communist. By all accounts these former fascists made excellent Communists. They were both loyal (they had to be, given their previous "mistake") and brutal (they had a natural talent in that regard). And for 40 years this hybrid totalitarian party governed a civilized nation against its will.

Today, Number 60 Andrassy Street is making amends for its past. For the last year, it has been a "Museum of Terror" recording the crimes and brutalities of both totalitarian regimes and reminding the world of what ordinary people suffered throughout eastern and central Europe and the Soviet Union for more than two generations.

It is hard, indeed impossible, to convey the intellectual and emotional impact of the museum. It does not merely record the past. It recreates the past with newsreels, documentary, books, posters, music, sound effects, the objects of ordinary life, and photographs of both victims and "victimizers" (the latter often disturbingly "normal" — looking) so that the visitor finds himself briefly inside the past rather than peering at it from afar.

One enters the museum through a doorway embroidered with the similar insignia of both totalitarianisms, walks past a Russian tank (symbol of Hungary's long occupation), and ascends in an elevator with a view of the dank gray courtyard where once dissidents were dragged in for interrogation. Then, to the sound of solemn music interrupted occasionally by the clang of a prison door or the ranting of some demagogue, one walks from the top of the building, through the last 60 years of Hungarian history, each floor illustrating some aspect of oppression — the fascist murder of Jews, the communist show trial of Cardinal Mindzenty, the starvation of the peasantry, the sudden liberating eruption of the 1956 Hungarian revolution, its suppression, the systematic round-up and punishment of the revolutionaries (including the execution of children), and the long banality of "goulash communism" under Janos Kadar's cynical dictatorship — until one reaches the lowest level of all. This is the cellar torture chambers, narrow cells with bare boards for beds, where the regime's victims were beaten, scalded, electrocuted, suffocated, drowned, and shot in their innocent thousands.

And then, suddenly, one is outside in the street again, returned to 2003, surrounded by Western trade names and neon signs, attempting to shake off the sense of tragedy and sorrow of the last few hours and the last 60 years.

Yet the museum, however improbably, is very popular. It has been visited by over 200,000 people, mainly Hungarian, in the year since its opening. And that is the problem.

For today Communists are as active under democracy as fascists were under Communism. Of course, they have changed their coats. The former Communist Party is now the Hungarian Socialist Party and the dominant partner in the current coalition government. But memory of the past — and thus the museum — is a rebuke and an obstacle to them.

Prime Minister Peter Medgyessy, himself a former informant for the secret policy, has visited the museum and praised it as a necessary reminder of a tragic past. Lower down in his party and government, however, people are trying to censor these memories.

Government MPs — including a son of someone listed on the "Wall of Victimizers" — have tried to cut the museum's funding; the Hungarian Socialist Party chairman proposed to remodel the museum as a "House of Reconciliation" (one wonders how reconciliation with the Arrow Cross would be expressed); and the government is trying to install its own nominees on the governing board.

These moves should be resisted — and not just by Hungarians. Western ambassadors might demonstrate their concern by making a high-profile visit to the museum. Historians too should add their voices — and their presence at any conferences held by the museum. Nor should remembrance be confined to Budapest — why should the Museum of Terror not mount traveling exhibitions to Western Europe and the United States?

Are they really trying to destroy this museum?
 

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maybe we should move this to History forum? There are too many points to address here. Zoltan, no offense, but you really need to read more on the subject.
 

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Originally posted by webbrave
maybe we should move this to History forum? There are too many points to address here. Zoltan, no offense, but you really need to read more on the subject.

I thnk you are correct.... for more than one reason I will move it there :)
 

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Originally posted by ZheShiWO
Because revisionists regimes in states like hungary joined the Nazis in an allience and declared war on the Soviet Union ?

He,funny boy....
Not only nazis were killed.
And do you think that we had a chance to ally with elseone?
Allies didn't listen to us,we didn't need them.Why should you join an alliance where you are not needed?

And i wasn't only talikng about the crimes after war...
 

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Did i post it not to the History Forum...arghh,sorry,i wanted to post it there.maybe i was too dissolved.....

Sullivan's article....yes,one of the members of our pairlament(from the liberal party,socialists' ally) really proposed to cut the funding.And his father was really working at the House of Terror.......at AVO.

Our Socialist Party is the legal successor of the old "Party"...So a lots of her members had positions during the communist regime.Even the prime minister,even the minister of foreign affairs,and even others.This is the reason why this museum is bad for them....

But now they have new values.They want to join Europe at ALL costs,they support Bush at ALL costs.Most of the media supports them,and they also tried to do against the opposition's media.....
And sometimes they used their old values to stop demonstrations...
 
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He,funny boy....
Not only nazis were killed.
you are correct.
Jews were killed too.
And do you think that we had a chance to ally with elseone?
Allies didn't listen to us,we didn't need them.Why should you join an alliance where you are not needed?
Exactly. To achieve Hungarian revisions of the 1919 treaties the Hungarian government and peoples jumped in the camp of the Nazis.
And i wasn't only talikng about the crimes after war...
Yes and the only reasons the Soviest had the chance to commit these crimes was because of Hungarian willingness to support Hitler.
You reaped what you sowed.
 

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Zoltan, how is the uprising of 1956 seen in Hungary today? Is the fact that is was not only anti-Communist, but also strongly anti-semitic covered at all? Or is it simply portrayed as a heroic democratic movement brutally suppressed by the Soviets (sort of like the "Prague spring"). From you post I got a feeling that this is precisely how you see it. Can you elaborate please?
 

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Originally posted by Zoltan
Millions were forced to leave their homes,in East-Prussia hundred thousands(millions) of Germans were murdered,to make Königsberg a Russian city.

relocated to Germany - yes, but murdered - absolutely not. Sure, a lot of people died there during the war, but to say that after the war millions of Germans were killed to make the city Russian is simply preposterous. In 1947-48 there was a well-documented resettlement of East Prussian Germans that coincided with the explulsion of Germans from other formerly German territories.
 

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Hey,Zeshivo,do you know what the hell yre you talking about?,
Hungary allied with Hitler,because it was our only chance,what else could we do?BEcome the only allied state in the region when Germany was believed to be the nr1. superpower?

And as i said,not only nazis were killed by the communists,but also members of democratic parties,people who had a word against agression.So please,don't say that we deserved it.
Anyway,i wasn't only talikng about Hungary in this case.But i wrote more about us,since i know more(but not everything)about the things here,and this is the most painful for me.
Today i read in an article that almost ALL Hungarian families had a relative who was taken to Siberia,was jailed,or had lost his farm,or whose life was crushed by AVO.

No,Webbrave,1956's revolution wasn't anti-semitic,there was nothing anti-semitic!
It was a really democratic uprising,the question of anti-semitism even not came up here...Don't know where did you hear such things,but no,there was no Jewish-question in 56.
 

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Originally posted by Zoltan

No,Webbrave,1956's revolution wasn't anti-semitic,there was nothing anti-semitic!
It was a really democratic uprising,the question of anti-semitism even not came up here...Don't know where did you hear such things,but no,there was no Jewish-question in 56.

ok then. Just what I thought - this is not really covered in Hungarian text books. This is probably news for you, but 1956 uprising was strongly anti-semitic. The fact that a lot of Hungarian communists including Miklos Rakosi were Jews (and many of them were Zionists as well) only fueled already strong anti-semitic sentiments (there were pogroms right after the war, in 1946, for instance). So, by being anti-Communist, 1956 uprising was also anti-semitic with pogroms in many parts of the country - some Jews were killed and some 200000 were forced to leave in the aftermath of 1956 events. I am not surprised this is not often mentioned in Hungary. It is much more convenient to present your country's history in black and white with "communists" as the "bad guys" and everyone opposing them as knights in shining armour.

"In 1956 a smattering of anti-Semitic incidents in the countryside gave the ultimate incentive for emigration. A number of anti-Jewish atrocities occurred outside Budapest. Three Jews were murdered at Miskolc. At Tarcal another three were attacked with knives. On October 25 at Mezökövesd and Mezönyárad many Jews were beaten while at Hajdunánás some were robbed and tortured. Anti-Semitic incidents had taken place in the villages of Vámospercs-Nyíradony, Hajdúnánás, Balkány, Marikocs and Nyirbátor. The outbursts were spontaneous and not inspired from outside or above. Fearing the recurrence of excesses, many Jews moved to Budapest from the villages and subsequently left the country. Reports of anti-Semitic activities came from a few villages and four towns. ."

http://www2.h-net.msu.edu/~judaic/articles/hungary1
http://www3.sympatico.ca/thidas/Hun.../Cleveland.html

Also, I recommend that you read this book: Red Star, Blue Star: The lives and times of Jewish students in Communist Hungary (1948-1956). New York: Columbia University Press, 1997.

Another aspect of 1956 uprising is that unlike the Prague spring it is often unfairly compared to, Hungarian events were more about in-party fighting for power than about real democratization. Sorry to destroy you national mythology like that - maybe you can prove me completely wrong.;)
 
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Hey,Zeshivo,do you know what the hell yre you talking about?,
Do you ?
Hungary allied with Hitler,because it was our only chance,what else could we do?BEcome the only allied state in the region when Germany was believed to be the nr1. superpower?
Or, and this is a wild alternative, stay nuetral ? Not slaughter your jews ? Not declare war on Russia ? Not send troops to Russia ?
And as i said,not only nazis were killed by the communists,but also members of democratic parties,people who had a word against agression.
Give me a break. Hungarians willingly joined Germany because they thought they could revisions of 1919, which they did. Romanian and Slovak consecions to Hungary were forced out of those states by Germany.
 
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In the 1920s, the situation stabilized, but by the late 1930s, the first of a series of anti-Semitic laws was enacted, restricting the socioeconomic activity of the Jewish population.
The wartime fate of the Jews of the territories detached from Hungary after World War I, but later returned, was linked to those of Hungary proper. Over 600,000 Hungarian Jews perished in the Shoah, in many instances at the hands of Hungarian Fascists or with their cooperation.

In July and August, 1941, 17 000 immigrant Jews living in Hungary are deported by the Hungarian authorities and massacred by SS (Nazi) troops.


World Jewish congress.
 

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Originally posted by ZheShiWO
World Jewish congress.


yes, add to this post-war attitude toward the Jews in Hungary and you get the picture.
 

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From what I've been told (by the daughter of of one of these men) Stalin picked "Jewish" Communists to staff the security apparatus of the Eastern European countries he occupied. People with a Jewish background were heavily overrepresented in these Communist parties in any case.

It's not the elast surprising that the Hungarians (and Poles) vented antisemitic sentiments in the same breath as anticommunist when they had a chance. The prominence of "Jews" in the communist state-terrortist organizations must have convinced not a few that the propaganda about the Jewish Bolshevik menace was true. (Of course, the Polish communists in fact staged their own "anti-zionist" campaign in 1968 and expelled 30.000 Jews from the party and the country).

The history of the Jews of eastern Euroep since 1918 has been one of unmitigated tragedy. The antisemitism of Hungary in 1956 is just another chapter in that story.

But however antisemite the Hungarians were in 1856 that does not justify glossing over the communist repression of them - or for that matter the fact that people born as Jews were prominent in it.
 
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Originally posted by Hardu
From what I've been told (by the daughter of of one of these men) Stalin picked "Jewish" Communists to staff the security apparatus of the Eastern European countries he occupied. People with a Jewish background were heavily overrepresented in these Communist parties in any case.
to complete you said :
not that Stalin favored jews in the national CPs in absolute terms. It just occured that there was a heavy trend in the jewish community to involve in far left-organizations by the end of the 19th c. This trend was reinforced during and after the 2 world wars
And Jewish people were the ones who couldn't be suspected to have "dealt" with the former regime. They were also most involved in the resistance, or more often flew to the USSR. So they were often given some key positions

So yes, the Jewish Bolshevik propaganda was a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy, by giving a clue to the jewish people that to defend themselves they had to ally with the enemies of their enemies