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theolor

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So I was looking at the government types and I noticed there is one called "Absolute Capitalism" But I feel there should be a Communistic society as well either as a Collectivist Communist society (Oligarchy) Stalinist type communism (Autocracy) etc.
 
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I think the government types are meant to be incredibly generalized and "influenced" by the ethos, so a certain type of government with a certain type of ethos "roleplay-wise" creates a certain form of government.
 
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You're confusing communism and autocracy. Anarcho communism is perfectly possible, especially in a post scarcity society (as I would assume all space faring civ are in the game, or close enough)
Communism =/= illiberalism, much as China, the Soviet Union, and modern day rightists would seem to indicate
 
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Divine Mandate is all you need to claim absolute rulership over the Middle Galaxy.
 
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I guess that government flavour is coming more from ethos than specific government form: so, a Fascist, a Communist, and a Traditionalist Military Dictatorship would differ in that the first is Xenophobic/Militarist, the second one is Materialist/Collectivist, and the last one Spiritualist/Militarist, although the government type would be the same
 
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Surely you could safely say that any government with strong collectivism would be communist?

Yeah, I was thinking of Stalin specifically when saying autocratic dictatorship. Where the leadership structure is a dictatorship, even if the implemented economic system in the country was communist. So the question of communism, becomes largely irrelevant. As you said, it would be strongly collectivist driven, but the leadership structure would be dictatorship in cases like Stalin.

PS. Really as Clophiroth described above.
 
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I think that communism in the context used here is an economic model rather than a political structure. Communism, like capitalism, can modulate a political structure, but I wouldn't say it's one on its own. That's one of the reasons why when people say 'communism' they think autocracy or military junta, since the vast majority of communist countries have communist economic policies but autocratic or (juntistic?) governments. An issue with anarcho communism is that anarchy is, to my understanding, outside the scope of the game.

An anarchistic state (as opposed to a 'rule by might' or 'rule by majority' state, since those would be autocracies and democracies) would have quite a bit of trouble setting economic and military policies or focused research, much less actually forming lasting treaties with other civilizations. It would essentially risk obviating a good deal of core gameplay with something which rebels could potentially force upon a player.
 
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Anarcho communism is perfectly possible for species with radically non-human psychologies, especially in a post scarcity society
Fixed that for you ;) .

(as I would assume all space faring civ are in the game, or close enough)
I doubt it sadly. Magic rare resources and all that will be important for trade.

Communism =/= illiberalism
Except for every single time it's ever ever ever been tried. Every time humans tried it, we ended up with brutal dictators and, to date, about a hundred million dead?

Apparently that's not a big enough clue-bat for some people though.

Bonus round: if "communism =/= illiberalism", then I say that colonialism and imperialism aren't illiberal etc either.
 
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Except for every single time it's ever ever ever been tried. Every time humans tried it, we ended up with brutal dictators and, to date, about a hundred million dead? Apparently that's not a big enough clue-bat for some people though.
That's inductive reasoning though, an entirely irrelevant concept in political science. Any first grader might as well argue that all these countries were poor, non-industrialized (at the time of the revolution) and started out as autocracies. If communism (as an economic system) was implemented by election and without Soviet or American meddling in for example Scandinavia, a post-industrial society with a century's worth of democratic tradition, governmental transparency and public education things might go very differently. But we have no way of knowing either way for certain because human societies are way too complicated. This is especially true in sci-fi because post-scarcity, as others have pointed out, is a game-changer.

The only thing we do know is that people claiming certainty are certainly wrong.
 
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This is the point where the Stellaris forum becomes the HoI forum...

If anyone's read the culture series, I'd say that models what people would think of as a space Anarchist/Communist society. Of course, the fact that it's fundamentally managed by machines makes it rather interesting.
 
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So I was looking at the government types and I noticed there is one called "Absolute Capitalism" But I feel there should be a Communistic society as well either as a Collectivist Communist society (Oligarchy) Stalinist type communism (Autocracy) etc.

Oops, that was just me making up names for the government types on the Wiki. Essentially because it's the starting/neutral Oligarchy with Mr. Moneybags as the symbol. The names have been replaced with basic descriptions until we know more.

Also Collectivism seems to not have their own government types, along with Xenophile/phobia I guess it's because they are very tolerant at being made into slaves for the 'Greater Good' instead of being governed.
 
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Also Collectivism seems to not have their own government types, along with Xenophile/phobia I guess it's because they are very tolerant at being made into slaves for the 'Greater Good' instead of being governed.
I think that Collectivism and Individualism will have an effect on which side of the scale you come down on, with collectivist societies falling on the military/religious side (the nation rallies around the Glorious Leader) and individualist ones falling on the more capitalist/pacifist side(we all choose our own path).

...Or would the Moral democracy be more collectivist? Valuing the lives of others at the (potential) expense of your own wellbeing? hmmmmm
 
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Except for every single time it's ever ever ever been tried. Every time humans tried it, we ended up with brutal dictators and, to date, about a hundred million dead?

Apparently that's not a big enough clue-bat for some people though.

Bonus round: if "communism =/= illiberalism", then I say that colonialism and imperialism aren't illiberal etc either.

I'll just ignore your argument about history and when humans tried it because this isn't either of OT or HoI4 forums, and just point out that this game is SCIENCE FICTION. Arguments about the history of humanity make no sense in that context.

Now go watch Start Trek or read a Culture book.
 
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That's inductive reasoning though, an entirely irrelevant concept in political science.
Your argument taken in full means that in political "science" you know nothing at all, making the entire discipline useless. Was ______ a bad idea or a good one? Who knows. Will _____ work in this country? Can't tell, sorry!

In real science, we can test, say, E=MC^2... and we do so. And E=MC^2 keeps surviving, so scientists can say "we have high confidence in E=MC^2 because we've thrown everything we've got at it to try and disprove it, and it's still around".

But you're not even trying to do similar. It's just "oh well it's very complicated, so forget about even trying to apply the scientific method. Just, uh, don't blame communism, for ~reasons~, okay?"

Now personally, I don't think political science is a science at all, but if you do, then the onus is on you to fit your theories to observed reality. So far, ALL the observations show that communism = A Bad Thing. You've got observations from dozens of countries, and it's failed horrifically every time.

Any first grader might as well argue that all these countries were poor, non-industrialized (at the time of the revolution) and started out as autocracies.
Funny how it's never the ideology that's at fault, no?

Now, there have been plenty of poor, non-industrialised, autocratic regimes that didn't go to the extremes of the various communist regimes in history.

If communism (as an economic system) was implemented by election and without Soviet or American meddling in for example Scandinavia, a post-industrial society with a century's worth of democratic tradition, governmental transparency and public education things might go very differently.
Scandinavia would be a dictatorship within a few decades, and would collapse... probably within a century, tops. Communism in practice is outright evil, and communism in theory is not suited to human psychology.

The only thing we do know is that people claiming certainty are certainly wrong.
If an idea fails every single time it's tried, and in fact fails in the most bloody and evil ways in history... it's probably a clue that the idea is a bad one.

If anyone's read the culture series, I'd say that models what people would think of as a space Anarchist/Communist society. Of course, the fact that it's fundamentally managed by machines makes it rather interesting.
Yeah, I've generally liked the books, at least when Iain M Banks wasn't outright preaching (see the end of Hydrogen Sonata etc). It's worth bearing in mind though that the Culture is run by AIs, and it's not like the ordinary people in it have much of a say in what goes on except if the Minds allow them to. I suppose you could think of it as extreme libertarianism, but top-down rather than bottom-up (ie the state (insofar as it exists in the Culture) permits the ordinary people to do XYZ, rather than the ordinary people permitting the state to do stuff on their behalf).

Iain M Banks is also on record as stating that Culture humans are more rational than real ones, to the point where IRL humans may never be able to live in a Culture-like civilisation at all. For example: "Even if you can accept all the above, featuring a humanoid species that seems to exhibit no real greed, paranoia, stupidity, fanaticism or bigotry..."

Can't see homo sapiens going for Culture-style communism under the circumstances.

Now go watch Start Trek or read a Culture book.
Star Trek can't make up its mind, even just in the Federation. Sometimes Federation credits are mentioned, or transporter rations / credits, etc. I also find it extremely conformist - note how Janeway et al felt they were in bizzaro-world when they went back to late 20th Century California and met all the weirdly-dressed natives, and then compare said 20th Century Californians to most of the civilians we see in the Star Trek future.

So I'm not sure it's really a pleasant society to live in.

I'll just ignore your argument about history and when humans tried it because this isn't either of OT or HoI4 forums, and just point out that this game is SCIENCE FICTION. Arguments about the history of humanity make no sense in that context.
Given that our history informs our present, it is important, actually. Where we came from matters a great deal as to where we end up going. For that matter it can also inform us of what aliens might be like if they think like us, or think like us in certain regards.
 
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People defending communism and anarchism, come on lads it's clear they are just baiting for replies.
This is not what I intended.
 
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Your argument taken in full means that in political "science" you know nothing at all, making the entire discipline useless. Was ______ a bad idea or a good one? Who knows. Will _____ work in this country? Can't tell, sorry!

This isn;t true; the claim was that inductive reasoning could not be used, not that all reasoning, or appeal to evidence, was useless. Keep your hair on.

Now personally, I don't think political science is a science at all, but if you do, then the onus is on you to fit your theories to observed reality. So far, ALL the observations show that communism = A Bad Thing. You've got observations from dozens of countries, and it's failed horrifically every time.

Well, not really, no. Your analysis is extremely limited. In a similar manner, it could be argued that all attempts to overthrow monarchy and form Republican societies were doomed to failure, or to regimes of extravagant Terror, and yet, the entirety of the West, and many other places, lives in exactly such societies. You;re assuming that progress is gradualist and smooth, rather than exhibiting punctuated equilibrium. At any rate, on the basis of past societies, the advent of a new, communist society is in no way disqualified by the fact that previous attempts failed; that's not how societies change.

Funny how it's never the ideology that's at fault, no?

You'd have to make the case as to why and how, though, not just lean on "events".

Scandinavia would be a dictatorship within a few decades, and would collapse... probably within a century, tops. Communism in practice is outright evil, and communism in theory is not suited to human psychology.

Lol, nothing could be further from the truth. After all, class-divided societies, of the kind we live in today, have only existed for around 6000 years, and human beings have been around MUCH longer than that. It is these class-divided societies that are "not suited to human psychology", which is why every single one of them, without exception, has suffered from repeated rebellions. And they will keep suffering from them until they are replaced by something more suitable to human beings.

Yeah, I've generally liked the books, at least when Iain M Banks wasn't outright preaching (see the end of Hydrogen Sonata etc). It's worth bearing in mind though that the Culture is run by AIs, and it's not like the ordinary people in it have much of a say in what goes on except if the Minds allow them to. I suppose you could think of it as extreme libertarianism, but top-down rather than bottom-up (ie the state (insofar as it exists in the Culture) permits the ordinary people to do XYZ, rather than the ordinary people permitting the state to do stuff on their behalf).

It's not Libertarianism, because the Culture has no property. All strands of Libertarianism preserve a state, and its armed apparatus, for the preservation of property rights. Only Communism/Anarchism proposes doing away with the state completely.

Given that our history informs our present, it is important, actually. Where we came from matters a great deal as to where we end up going. For that matter it can also inform us of what aliens might be like if they think like us, or think like us in certain regards.

Quite so. And that is precisely why your argument is wrong the history you're looking at is too recent, too shallow.
 
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