Common Sense: another feature moved behind paywall?
- Thread starter zdlugasz
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Could those important countries like The Papal State, Byzantium, Semien, Teutonic Order not get a 'fixed_religion' in their history files, like we already have a fixed_capital for a lot of countries.
Maybe also a 'fixed_culture' for countries that shouldn't convert to a diffrent culture. It might also be handy for modding.
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We can say it for that's when spread of Christianity started, even if it wasn't of much significance. The rate of spreading increased later on with its prominence in the 20th century being the result of centuries prior. As a matter of fact, 20th century in Korea is more significant for spread of Atheism.
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I do not know if Ottomans really need so much protection but what is you outlook at the Orthodox Ottomans? Will you disable rebel conversions?
If player wants to turn themselves into Orthodox Ottomans, they can do so. Different thing entirely.
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It kinda feels to me like we might want two separate buttons...
One 'Accept my authority' button where the overlord forces his religion onto the subject (and I personally would allow it across religion groups as well)
One 'Stop oppressing your people' button where the overlord forces the subject to adopt the majority religion of their provinces.
One 'Accept my authority' button where the overlord forces his religion onto the subject (and I personally would allow it across religion groups as well)
One 'Stop oppressing your people' button where the overlord forces the subject to adopt the majority religion of their provinces.
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An example, ofcourse. Could be things like Lithuania releasing Catholic Kiev, Castile Catholic Granada post-Reconquista, etc.
Edit; or my own previous example concerning rebels, Muslim Byzantines rebelling from Ottoman Sunni provinces.
And I have replied that I might agree with such mechanics for rebel released countries.
However, what I think would be better is to add trigger to the rebels, so say Sunni province cant spawn Byzantine nationalist, if we deem that this is bad.
Why Granada released in 1733 would be Sunni, after almost 3 centuries of Inquisition, expulsion of Moriscos etc? I think that such Granada would be more silly than Catholic Granada. Catholic Granada would be equivalent to Catalunya or Navarra - local separatism and internal problems rising to such level that provinces secede from country.
If Lithuania were able to convert province Kiev (do they ever? they take Humanist and not Religious) it would be equivalent that Union of Brest succeeded and both churches have united. What would be the reason, say 100 years later to revive dead religion?
And counter examples, were all provinces are of the "new" religion
- punch nahuatl Aztecs out of Mexico or whatever pagan out of Portugese Ternate
- Sunni Bijapur punched out of Shia Bahmanids by Hindu Orissa
- ...
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Then it means "annex" (diplomatic action), "convert" (missionary action), "release" (diplomatic action), "force convert" (diplomatic action) so it involves weaker relationships at start, but that should go over time.
Not sure to which post you are replaying, but new DLC-only diplomatic action will work for the same religion group only. So it wont work overseas, in India, in Balcans, NAfrica, in fact it wont work for most player-controlled situations, when you reach and conquer outside your initial region.
Basically, it looks like new design decision/policy that player vassal feeding is at least badwrongfun and must be stomped.
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As one without AoW I feel I should point out that without it besides giving back cores(which is hardly feeding much) you don't want vassals with same religion since then you have to convert provinces before selling to them. Sure when you annex you have a bunch of other religion provinces but it doesn't matter all that much and it is better than the alternative.
I disagree
When your vasal have a military leader they eat any province you give them, religion, culture etc dosnt matter so i certainly prefere to have a vasal of the same religion than a heathen.
As a general comment to this thread its just typical trend who have been going on since at lest 1.6 with EU4 turning into a pay for power game, when you cant sell content sell power.
If by "pay for power" you mean "pay to be able to stomp the already highly-stompable computer slightly harder", sure. (Remember, MP is a level playing field: everyone gets to use the features of the DLCs the host has paid for.)
Well you are free to disagree since it is a playstyle choice (as is vassal feeding) but I would rather not rely multiple times on luck and would rather do things on my own pace than have to wait until RNG feels like favouring me then rush hoping ruler won't die mid-war or worse mid-selling.
But, would it still be possible to diplomatically convert the vassals to your religion? So if Coptic Ethiopians release Semien which is a Jewish state, they could surround the nation with their armies and send a diplomat to ask them to convert. Perhaps with some requirements, like no truce or good relations.
That way this won't be an issue. Vassal will keep his religion, but you are not forced to stick with the situation. You can change it later anyway by using diplomats.
This should definitely be implemented if not already there. Austria historically managed to keep so many nations who were their vassals Catholic during the Reformation.
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A thought: The 'Demand Conversion' action towards your vassals could scale depending on what percentage of their provinces are your religion. High percentage results in a small liberty desire increase, while a low percentage results in a high increase.
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BTW, This 'Force conversion' tool with vassals works only inside religious group, doesn't it? So Christian wont be able to make his own created vassal Christian in e.g., Indian provinces, even converted to Christian.
Just suppose, as Catholic Britany I conquer all Ottomans, then convert ALL their land, then change ALL their culture into Brittons, then I decide to release the Ottos as a roleplaying feature…
and the Ottomans suddenly become Muslim… Hm… MUSLIMS… on the land of 100% Catholic Brittons… What a suicide for a ruler the Ottos should be to see himself as a Muslim vassal there…
This remaining in religious group could be a great feature for 'Release vassal' demand in the Peace menu, when a Winner virtually appoints a ruler in the Peace deal, and the Looser only submits to the Winner's will. But it is nonsense in terms when I (AI) appoint(s) specific vassal ruller to the land.
HOWEVER, if there was an option:
The land has XX provinces of AA religion, and YY provinces of BB religion. Which leader do you want to appoint?
OR (even better)
BB religion dominates over AA religion. Do you want to appoint local majority religion vassal (-1 to -10 unrest for 50 years) or minority religion vassal (+1 to +10 unrest for 50 years).
Just suppose, as Catholic Britany I conquer all Ottomans, then convert ALL their land, then change ALL their culture into Brittons, then I decide to release the Ottos as a roleplaying feature…
and the Ottomans suddenly become Muslim… Hm… MUSLIMS… on the land of 100% Catholic Brittons… What a suicide for a ruler the Ottos should be to see himself as a Muslim vassal there…
This remaining in religious group could be a great feature for 'Release vassal' demand in the Peace menu, when a Winner virtually appoints a ruler in the Peace deal, and the Looser only submits to the Winner's will. But it is nonsense in terms when I (AI) appoint(s) specific vassal ruller to the land.
HOWEVER, if there was an option:
The land has XX provinces of AA religion, and YY provinces of BB religion. Which leader do you want to appoint?
OR (even better)
BB religion dominates over AA religion. Do you want to appoint local majority religion vassal (-1 to -10 unrest for 50 years) or minority religion vassal (+1 to +10 unrest for 50 years).
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What exactly is the problem with a Catholic Ottomans getting released?
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