Common Sense: another feature moved behind paywall?

[zdlugasz]

From the last Map Teaser thread

Vassals keep their religion when released now. We added an interface string to tell you what religion a released vassal will be.

The last DD allows forcing religion on vassals, but it will be paid feature. So, so far, barring denial from devs, it looks to me that this is another feature that is removed to be added behind paywall in slightly different form.

Unfortunatelly, in the mentioned thread, Wiz declined to further elaborate on the issue, nor did answer any of questions like:
- what will happen if I convert provinces and release vassal (with intention to feed it and let him convert its other cores)

I put it here, because I feel that information might have been lost in Map Teaser thread.




Edit:
after Wiz clarifications that change was not connected to new DLC force-religion feature, I think that we face different issue:
Dev's have decided that vassal feeding is badwrongfun and must be stomped, probably because conquests outside your religion group are silly.

 

[Naresh]

I'm assuming convert + release will work as it always has done, they pop up as your religion. The force religion option is a way to circumnavigate that, with the downside of +50% LD (I think)

EDIT: Looks like I'm quite wrong.
But you could convert their land and let rebels convert them

 

[Falc]

"Vassals keep their religion when released"? What if your vassal never existed before?

Because of this, I'm thinking that it's more likely to be released with the religion of the majority of its provinces.

 

[zdlugasz]

"Vassals keep their religion when released"? What if your vassal never existed before?

Because of this, I'm thinking that it's more likely to be released with the religion of the majority of its provinces.

IMO it does not matter if vassal existed or not. Each country (existing or not) has entry "religion = XYZ". It looks like they will use it for re-spawned vassals.

 

[zdlugasz]

I'm assuming convert + release will work as it always has done, they pop up as your religion. The force religion option is a way to circumnavigate that, with the downside of +50% LD (I think)

I would wish it as well, however it was asked at least 2 times and Wiz did not confirm, thus VERY serious doubt remains.

Edit
I would even say that the opposite seems to be more probable.

 

[Naresh]

I would wish it as well, however it was asked at least 2 times and Wiz did not confirm, thus VERY serious doubt remains.

I just re-read the DD and yeah...
But you could convert their land and let rebels convert them

Seems a bit weak, but I'm buying the expansion anyway

 

[Wizzington]

Countries are released with the religion they had at annex or scripted in their history files. This was done to allow for things like releasing and playing a Jewish Semien and because things like capturing and releasing Catholic Ottomans was quite silly. It had nothing to do with the subject interactions feature which targets same religion group countries that you couldn't even do this with.

 

[zdlugasz]

I just re-read the DD and yeah...
But you could convert their land and let rebels convert them

Seems a bit weak, but I'm buying the expansion anyway

That seems to be core = patch mechanism, which everyone will get.

On the other hand force-religion on vassals will be in DLC.

 

[Haldan]

Countries are released with the religion they had at annex or scripted in their history files. This was done to allow for things like releasing and playing a Jewish Semien and because things like capturing and releasing Catholic Ottomans was quite silly. It had nothing to do with the subject interactions feature which targets same religion group countries that you couldn't even do this with.

Does this apply for rebels as well? Way too often Sunni Byzantium pops up.

 

[zdlugasz]

Countries are released with the religion they had at annex or scripted in their history files. This was done to allow for things like releasing and playing a Jewish Semien and because things like capturing and releasing Catholic Ottomans was quite silly. It had nothing to do with the subject interactions feature which targets same religion group countries that you couldn't even do this with.

Thanks for clarification on that issue.

On the other hand why Japan must be the only catholic country in Asia?
Why Spain would release totemist/nahuatl native?

IMO giving religion of majority of provinces would have more COMMON SENSE. It would allow for Jewish Siemien etc.

What strikes me silly is that if Ethiopia converts Siemien to Coptic and release it it will be Jewish again!

 

[zdlugasz]

Does this apply for rebels as well? Way too often Sunni Byzantium pops up.

I would guess that yes, and that is the only place I feel it should be applied.In other cases religion majority of provinces should be taken into account

 

[Wizzington]

Thanks for clarification on that issue.

On the other hand why Japan must be the only catholic country in Asia?
Why Spain would release totemist/nahuatl native?

IMO giving religion of majority of provinces would have more COMMON SENSE. It would allow for Jewish Siemien etc.

What strikes me silly is that if Ethiopia converts Siemien to Coptic and release it it will be Jewish again!

In terms of name, flag, etc, countries are frequently centered around the particular religion they have in the history files. Semien really has no reason to exist as a tag if it's just another Coptic state. That said, in some senses using majority religion of provinces would make sense, such as the same religion group. I'll consider it.

 

[bbqftw]

A rather big change to vassal feeding - In some ways it makes it easier (no need to massacre 1 bajillion zealots on a released vassal that doesn't take religious), some ways harder.

should be interesting!

 

[happymix91]

Religious minority is one of the most critical thing that missed in EU. Only clicking once makes a probince totally different religion, but a province has many religions at the same time. The change which Wiz said makes sense in that kind of point. Though a major religion of a province changed, there is no reason for changing religion of Ottoman or Byzantine Empire.

 

[zdlugasz]

In terms of name, flag, etc, countries are frequently centered around the particular religion they have in the history files. Semien really has no reason to exist as a tag if it's just another Coptic state. That said, in some senses using majority religion of provinces would make sense, such as the same religion group. I'll consider it.

Why only the same religion group?
Let us consider situation in India. Playing Orissa, Vijay (Hinduist) whatever I destroy Bahmanis (Shia) and want/can to release Bijapur. All provinces in 1444 are Hindu. Bijapur will be released SUNNI, why? because say 200 later Bijapur was Sunni sultanate? That is serious railroading.

Back to Far East. Why only Japan has chance to become Christian in Asia? In previous era there were serious Christian (Nestorian) communities in steppes, in China, Middle East. And actually colonizers converted Philippines and part of Indonesia. I have read that at the beginning of 16th century there was a real competition between Portugese and Muslims not only for trade but for souls as well. What will happen when I release currently (in 1444) pagan countries from Indonesia as Portugal?
That block seems ahistorical as well.

 

[bbqftw]

yeah, Sunni is particularly awful since its already hard to convert against that -2%, especially as a religious group that doesn't get 1 trillion missionary strength decisions *cough* Christian.

I'm sure we can adapt though. I wonder if this means that intentionally destabilizing your vassals so they get overrun with zealots will soon have to become something in the dedicated blobbers toolbox.

 

[Nyrael]

Back to Far East. Why only Japan has chance to become Christian in Asia? In previous era there were serious Christian (Nestorian) communities in steppes, in China, Middle East. And actually colonizers converted Philippines and part of Indonesia. I have read that at the beginning of 16th century there was a real competition between Portugese and Muslims not only for trade but for souls as well. What will happen when I release currently (in 1444) pagan countries from Indonesia as Portugal?
That block seems ahistorical as well.

Don't forget Korea, where Christianity started spreading since 15th century and later became the majority religion. There could be many fun events there, both concerning conversions, what it means for the country and the Protestant-Catholic competition.

 

[zdlugasz]

In terms of name, flag, etc, countries are frequently centered around the particular religion they have in the history files. Semien really has no reason to exist as a tag if it's just another Coptic state. That said, in some senses using majority religion of provinces would make sense, such as the same religion group. I'll consider it.

Another funny example:

Java is 100% Hindu in 1444, but some of potential revolters are sunni sultanates. In my last game AI Majapahit successfully conquered whole Borneo, Celebes and part of Sumatra. They started to convert, but due to insufficient strength were able to do only low tax provinces before I have arrived there. So it looks like that Hinduism is doing really well and now out of blue I can release Sunni Cirebon, Demak, insert any other name here?

 

[Artess]

Countries are released with the religion they had at annex or scripted in their history files. This was done to allow for things like releasing and playing a Jewish Semien and because things like capturing and releasing Catholic Ottomans was quite silly. It had nothing to do with the subject interactions feature which targets same religion group countries that you couldn't even do this with.

So, does this mean that if I conquer Morocco as Portugal or Castile in the beginning of the game, convert them, let them stay Catholic for over three hundred years, and then (for whatever reason) choose to release them as a vassal, they suddenly turn all Muslim again after all this time?

 

[happymix91]

Don't forget Korea, where Christianity started spreading since 15th century and later became the majority religion. There could be many fun events there, both concerning conversions, what it means for the country and the Protestant-Catholic competition.

We can't say that Christianity was 'spreaded' since 15c in Korea. It was not a 'major' in Korea before late 20c. It is major religion at now, but at EU era it was very little.