Commanders list, the winners and the losers

[Nicolas I]

Many were very surprised when a list of commanders was added to the wiki today about how few commanders some countries have. This even when taking into account that the new system requires a lot less commanders.

HOI4 list: http://www.hoi4wiki.com/List_of_commanders

HOI3 list: http://www.hoi3wiki.com/Command_structure

Though I know this list may not be definitive and comprehensive, I made a quick comparison (not so quick in fact) between the numbers of commanders on this wiki list when compared to the HOI3 list. This counts land officers and admirals (as there is no air commanders on the wiki list). I only counted HOI3 leaders available when the game begins.

The score goes from 35% to 1%, with an average of 15%.

I don't understand why they didn't chose to enforce the same percentage for all countries, with some minor adjustments, instead of so huge disparities ?

Here are the winners and the losers, in % of commanders vs HOI3. Four majors are in the lead, with France and surprisingly Germany lagging behind Canada and Australia. Greece, China and Spain are the great losers and by far.

USA 35%
Japan 31%
UK 29%
USSR 24% -- or 35% (less purged ones - though the HOI4 list may also be subject to purge)
Canada 21%
Australia 17%
France 15%
Germany 15%
Argentina 12%
Italy 11%
Poland 6%
Finland 5%
Greece 3%
China 2%
Spain 1% -- more will probably become available when the SCW begins

 

[warith1000]

*puffs pipe proudly*

 

[Nicolas I]

*puffs pipe proudly*

It may be only a coincidence that USA is the biggest market for Paradox games ?

 

[John Henry Eden]

After going through the list of available commanders, I am quite happy with the choices, even for Germany.

Keep the list short and easy to manage.

 

[Nicolas I]

After going through the list of available commanders, I am quite happy with the choices, even for Germany.

Keep the list short and easy to manage.

It will be quite easy indeed for Czechoslovakia, Greece, Spain, Netherlands and Belgium to manage their 1 lonely general.

 

[Jinx1527]

Can you post a link to this wiki page? I can't seem to find it.

 

[Nicolas I]

Can you post a link to this wiki page? I can't seem to find it.

Yes, it is hard to find (not well indexed) as there is no hyperlink from the warfare or command group page. Thanks to @Denkt who posted it earlier today.

Here is the HOI4 list: http://www.hoi4wiki.com/List_of_commanders

And the HOI3 list: http://www.hoi3wiki.com/Command_structure

EDIT: I put a link to the list from the Command group (commander) page of the wiki to make the list visible instead of buried underground.

 

[Jinx1527]

Thank you, I have yet to find a way to efficiently navigate those wikis.

 

[Broletariat90]

I'm sure they will add more and I honestly doubt that is the full list in its entirety. Any info behind who posted it and if they can cite their sources?

 

[Maizel]

Is the Wiki list a complete one? The page itself says 'All'

It seems really light to me, especially for many minors.

Dont tell me it might be DLC. -_-

 

[Nicolas I]

I'm sure they will add more and I honestly doubt that is the full list in its entirety. Any info behind who posted it and if they can cite their sources?

I also hope the list is not comprehensive nor finished.

Maybe have a look to the history of the list wiki page to find the contributors. It seems a good guess the info comes from the Beta and/or the WWW Streams.

In any case I do not blame them in any way if the list is incomplete. I will fully take the burden if I was too quick to react based on incomplete data.

 

[warith1000]

It may be only a coincidence that USA is the biggest market for Paradox games ?

Well the US has the market for a lot of things...

 

[Maizel]

I also hope the list is not comprehensive nor finished.

I'd be very disappointing if this was a complete list. But then again, it wouldnt surprise me if they held off putting more effort in it until the country pack DLC's..

 

[gandhiac]

Erich von Manstein is listed with a skill of "4" while some generals I never heard about are listed with skill "5". Thats a kind of surprise for me.

The skill ratings for a lot the german commanders - including the "5" for Dönitz are questionable IMHO.

The skill rating for Walter Model "1" is a bad joke for example : ( quoted from Wikipedia )

Otto Moritz Walter Model (January 24 1891 – April 21 1945) was a German general and later field marshal during World War II. He is noted for his defensive battles in the latter half of the war, mostly on the Eastern Front but also in the west, and for his close association with Adolf Hitler and Nazism. He has been called the Wehrmacht's best defensive tactician. In order to avoid surrender, he shot himself in the head in a wooded area on April 21, 1945. The location, between Duisburg and the village of Lintorf, is today part of the city of Ratingen.

 

[Nicolas I]

Erich von Manstein is listed with a skill of "4" while some generals I never heard about are listed with skill "5". Thats a kind of surprise for me. The skill ratings for a lot the german commanders - including the "5" for Dönitz are questionable IMHO.

And two unknown Swedish generals who didn't fought in WW2 with skills of 3 and 4. Paradox caring for his own turf ?

 

[GhengisKhan]

Im sure some of these ranks are balance related. Helps the Fins hold of the Ruskies in the WInter War a little bettter etc.

 

[Maizel]

Im sure some of these ranks are balance related. Helps the Fins hold of the Ruskies in the WInter War a little bettter etc.

Luxembourg better have a rank 10 general then, to help them fend off the Germans.

I don't think 'balance' should have too much impact on the skills of the generals in the game. The list, short as it may be, seems very inaccurate to me.

 

[GhengisKhan]

Luxembourg better have a rank 10 general then, to help them fend off the Germans.

I don't think 'balance' should have too much impact on the skills of the generals in the game. The list, short as it may be, seems very inaccurate to me.

The point is the Fins DID hold of the ruskies and Luxembourgh didn't hold off the Germans in the slightest. Generals can also not go above rank 5 to my knowledge. So im not sure that statement is in anyway relevant.

I'm not making a statement to how accurate the list is only to generals rank and traits being part of the balance of the game at start.

Again until i hear/see proof i'm not entirely sure this list is complete.

 

[scroggin]

Erich von Manstein is listed with a skill of "4" while some generals I never heard about are listed with skill "5". Thats a kind of surprise for me.

The skill ratings for a lot the german commanders - including the "5" for Dönitz are questionable IMHO.

The skill rating for Walter Model "1" is a bad joke for example : ( quoted from Wikipedia )

Otto Moritz Walter Model (January 24 1891 – April 21 1945) was a German general and later field marshal during World War II. He is noted for his defensive battles in the latter half of the war, mostly on the Eastern Front but also in the west, and for his close association with Adolf Hitler and Nazism. He has been called the Wehrmacht's best defensive tactician. In order to avoid surrender, he shot himself in the head in a wooded area on April 21, 1945. The location, between Duisburg and the village of Lintorf, is today part of the city of Ratingen.

Yes the skill levels of different general seems quite random. The one that stood out to me was Freyberg only having level 2. He was an inspirational leader he did wonders for the moral of the 2nd New Zealand division, changed them from a fairly ordinary green divsion into a formidable force that Monty could always depend on. He could start with fortress buster, offensive doctrine or even commando because of his WWI experience.

 

[Daddl]

I don't see why this should not be enough. First, remember what it means the OOB is gone. For your nice army of 250 divisions, you need one to eleven commanders in HoI4, not 250 (division)+50 (corps)+10 (army)+2+1 = 313 leaders like in HoI3. 11/313 is 3,5% (for land commanders only) if you want to calculate it like that.

Second, I guess all these real characters have a realistic handmade portrait, and thats already a damn lot of portraits.

And I'm very sure you just get some guys with fitting names, but generic portraits once you run out of "real" commanders. If they have like 10 different generic portraits, I wouldn't have any problems with that either.

I agree there should be around 5 historical ones for every country, but everything over ~25 commanders for a single country is just unnecessary in my opinion. Sure, some majors like France and Italy could use a little more, but its not too far.