Command Structure Rework

[unmerged(61311)]

I've been tossing an idea around the old noggin for awhile, and that is a way to rework the command structure of the game. I would
like to see a way to assign "regional commanders", that is to have the units of several provinces (or even game areas) under the command of one general(army-group?), and then the individual units would have there local commanders respectively as it is now. Realworld examples of these would be Army group north, center, and south during Germany's invasion of the USSR.

In addition to this I would like a way of forming regional air groups, such as Germany's Luftwaffen, or Soviet air armies, these could then be assigned to your army-groups on land, and autonomously controlled by your air and land leaders based on their skill levels, doctrine, etc... I've never been a fan of the micro-management associated with air units on a large scale, although you could still retain your ability to control them manually.

I think this is a way to both make the game deeper, and lesson some of the busy work.
What do you think?

 

[von_Ysselstein]

The idea of reworked command structure is great, also there are different suggestions around on how to implement a more realistic approach. I think a Theater commander's skill level and traits etc should have a real influence on his subordinated units too, so a great feature would be something of a real command chain from Theater/Army Group HQ to Army HQ to Corps Command to Divisional Command level!

 

[unmerged(61311)]

The idea of reworked command structure is great, also there are different suggestions around on how to implement a more realistic approach. I think a Theater commander's skill level and traits etc should have a real influence on his subordinated units too, so a great feature would be something of a real command chain from Theater/Army Group HQ to Army HQ to Corps Command to Divisional Command level!

Exactly, such a system could reproduce Germany's situation, who had great leadership, except at the very highest level(Hitler, and his yes sir men).

 

[Acheron]

Please don'T make the command structure not overly difficile! I would suggest simply propping up the current HQs, like providing serious fighting boons (and possibly the HQs generals traits) to all units within several provinces distance.

 

[von_Ysselstein]

Exactly, such a system could reproduce Germany's situation, who had great leadership, except at the very highest level(Hitler, and his yes sir men).

Well, i think a realistic command chain would not only reproduce Germany's situation, but the situation of all military ground forces in total

 

[unmerged(61311)]

Please don'T make the command structure not overly difficile! I would suggest simply propping up the current HQs, like providing serious fighting boons (and possibly the HQs generals traits) to all units within several provinces distance.

I wouldn't want it to be overly complex, I would just like to have a command chain, something lacking in HOI2.

\At the very top would be your army minister-->then a theater commander-->then an army group commander/ then you would have the current system below that.
So you might have 2 or 3 theater commanders, then 4-6 army group commanders. The command chain might have it's own tab, with a simple graphic interface that looks something like a family tree.

There could also be an air army that is attached to each of your land army groups, as I said before that could be controlled by the cpu based on the skill levels of their air commanders as well as the army groups land commander. You could set the overall mission of these air armies, for instance the air group of army-group center's mission could be to support the ground forces it's attached to in various ways depending on the situation and available aircraft, or it's mission could be to attack the Soviet airforce which was the Luftwaffe's initial orders irl, by flying seek and destroy missions for the group's fighters and airfeild attacks for it's bombers.

Also air-armies could be set on a defensive stance such as that of the UK during the battle of Britain, or by Germany during the allied bombing campaign.
I'll tell you that when I'm playing as Germany, battling the Soviets on the Eastern Front, and I get a window saying "our cities have been bombed!, 10 IC damage, 5 coal damage, etc...", it really pisses me off, because I don't have the fuel to keep my planes in the air all the time, nor the patience to try and pick off large US bomber fleets roaming through my airspace, which is why I'd like to see the CPU send the interceptors where their needed, early warning systems like radar could greatly increase the effectiveness of the defensive airforce and not just by granting a combat bonus, but instead by allowing the defensive force to deploy its interceptors earlier(and automaticly of course), and with greater precision.

 

[otistdog]

I've been tossing an idea around the old noggin for awhile, and that is a way to rework the command structure of the game. I would like to see a way to assign "regional commanders", that is to have the units of several provinces (or even game areas) under the command of one general(army-group?), and then the individual units would have there local commanders respectively as it is now.

I definitely like this idea. I would particularly like it if you could issue an order to the "top" commander of a group and check a box on the order window to have that order flow to all subordinate members of the group.

 

[von Bixler]

I agree completely, I posted a similar idea in this thread:

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=324850

Basically the same kind of command structure, with the idea that a leader in a higher position (say, army group commander) would apply his bonus to more units, but it would be diluted the more units are under his command. That would give you a lot of flexibility in deciding how best to use your good leaders, locally or more globally. And incidentally, such a system would make the commander's rank mostly superficial, and dispense with the current rather awkward system of promotions and command limits.

 

[aphrochine]

I think it should be kept as simple as possible, but def something needs to be done. First command limit needs to be reworked. Make it similar to 'stacking limits' of amphib battles. Like a MjGen loses -10% Combat Eff for all units with every unit over 1 he commands, going up to 20%, 30%, etc.

Then every formation is allowed to have a 'parent formation'. The commander of the formation dictates how many subordinate formations allowed, like a Gen would be allowed 4, and FM would be allowed 6 for example. This could be modified by skill and/or traits. If a subordinate formation goes beyond the range (# of provinces) of its 'parent' formation, it would suffer a penalty. Theatre HQ would grant a large bonus to this 'command range.'

Next add several 'subordinate traits' that bonus only subordinate commanders. This would encourage a command structure based on skill and talent, not rank and rigid division count limits. The higher the rank of a general, the more likely he is to have Strategic traits, instead of tactical ones. This would also attempt to do away with the (criminal imo) act of simply promoting a skilled MjGen to Gen and giving him 9 divisions.

In this fashion, you naturally incent players to form Corps, Armies, Army Groups and Theatres leaving it up to them to have endless combinations of strategic and tactical traits to address the needs of the military campaign.

For example, you may have a MjGen with Panzer Commander, but instead of being limited to only 1 Division without penalty, put his formation as a subordinate to a formation with a General having the trait "Large Formation Tactics" which would give all subordinate commanders +1 Division to his unpenalized division cap. So now you can give that Uber MjGen 2 Tank Divisions. Makes the game fun, and adds a nice layer of complexity.

Lastly, the game needs non-hotkeyed Groups. You would form these groups with a buttons "group" "ungroup" or somethine else similar. This would let you have smaller formations where it made sense without the extra micromanagement. One order given to the group, goes for all units in the group. The groups would also be required to occupy the same province at all times.

 

[von Bixler]

Lastly, the game needs non-hotkeyed Groups. You would form these groups with a buttons "group" "ungroup" or somethine else similar. This would let you have smaller formations where it made sense without the extra micromanagement. One order given to the group, goes for all units in the group. The groups would also be required to occupy the same province at all times.

I think that's a key point, there definitely needs to be a distinction between groups created temporarily for the purpose of movement/action in unison and more permanent command structures.

A historical example would be Panzer Group Kleist, which was assembled from the armored formations of various army corps during the Battle of France; Once the main push through Sedan was accomplished it was disbanded and the constituent parts returned to their original formations.

 

[Balesir]

Between these 'temporary' formations and detatchments assigned to commanders for specific jobs, I'm tempted to say the current system has it right - a commander can, in practice, affect only those troops within his own province, or adjacent provinces if he has the benefit of an HQ. If some units he needs are not commanded by him they will be assigned to him for the mission if the High Command (i.e. the player) so decides.

The only use I can think of for higher formations is to have hotkey selection based on them - but what would you do with them? Order them all to the same province?? It still might be handy for quick-select to set up statuses, coordinated attacks and so on, I suppose.