Commado units...

[MaximusII]

Hi,
I have been writing this before, but I think that in HoI commados should be able of Capturing bridges and stuff like that,
one thing I have'nt wrote before is that you should be able of setting up your own commandos like the British S.A.S and Commandoes and the American Rangers, and this "Special Units" should be able of doing the thing I wrote above, capturing bridges and so on....
What do you think about this idea? Please answer...

--Thanks--

 

[Gwalcmai]

How many bridges have you noticed while playing HOI?

 

[MaximusII]

How many bridges have you noticed while playing HOI?

A few....

 

[unmerged(16832)]

You haven't a good sense of scale.

 

[aprof]

This idea has been posed before, and while I would like to see some commando units in the game, I understand that the grand strategic scale is a little "large" for commandos to have that much affect.

 

[unmerged(12244)]

This idea has been posed before, and while I would like to see some commando units in the game, I understand that the grand strategic scale is a little "large" for commandos to have that much affect.

But....what could be done maybe is somekind of bonus for example rivercrossing for Paras, Marines and Moutain. Well atleast for Marines and Paras.Or include it in the "commando warfare" tech that already exist in HOI1.
Reasearch it and there you have it. +10 or something.

 

[Wämö]

Or include it in the "commando warfare" tech that already exist in HOI1. Reasearch it and there you have it. +10 or something.

That would be best regarding commandos IMHO.

 

[Mork]

Or they could do like Mountbatten, destroy, or rather delay, the production of a sub or two.
Or have them help with jungle warfare, or some such.
To put it in other words, they could either be an add-on to divisions, a tech, or a slider which determines how much you are willing to put into the "covert action" pool.

(Yes, I have just recently read a book about "great military leaders" where Mountbatten were one of them).

 

[unmerged(16099)]

I think the scale of HoI2 is too large to put commando units on the map. It might be an interesting to have it as some sort of research doctrine.


--
EnPeaSea

 

[Zwiback]

The scale is certainly too large for placing commando units on the map.

But how about a kind of CommandoPoints, with which you could do some commando operations.

Like clicking on a province which is the target of an upcoming offensive and select "disrupt enemy supply lines".

But I am not sure if there should be really commando units in this game- I only know of a handful commando operations in WW2 which made the difference.

 

[GrimReaper]

The scale is certainly too large for placing commando units on the map.

But how about a kind of CommandoPoints, with which you could do some commando operations.

Like clicking on a province which is the target of an upcoming offensive and select "disrupt enemy supply lines".

But I am not sure if there should be really commando units in this game- I only know of a handful commando operations in WW2 which made the difference.

I agree with most of what you say; but there were a rather large amount of commando operations during WWII, most of them not so famous.

When they attacked the Netherlands, the Hamburgers... err, the Brandenburgers (sorry, could not resist ) carried out around 60 missions during the first day. According to Wehrmacht records, around 40 of them were successful. The missions consisted mostly of securing border/river crossings and pave the way for the regular Wehrmacht forces.

But perhaps we are discussing the famous commando operations, like the one were the Brits tried to take out Rommel? Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[unmerged(23238)]

I would guess it would either be events or "some kind of CommandoPoints".
Considering the late stage of HOI/HOI2 I would belive that ordinary events will be used (in mods, if not in the vanilla game). Or have a missed some late news again?

An event could for example be a certain large (and successfull) Brittish raid on a port which -gamewise -could lower the org on the ships on port, damage a random ship in port or just lower dissident in your own country somewhat and increase the dissident in the target country somewhat.
Events to remove certain leaders could perhpas be used to reflect historical ones?
Repeated events for sabotage could perhaps have an impact on both supplies, productions and mil.int?
Perhaps not the most exciting way to do it, but...

 

[aprof]

But perhaps we are discussing the famous commando operations, like the one were the Brits tied to take out Rommel? Correct me if I am wrong.

I think we're talking about any of the various commando ops - USA=Capture Pointe du Hoc on D-Day, Makin Island Raid; UK=raids into Norway, the 'Cockleshell Heroes' attack on the sub pens in St. Nazaire (?); GER=Skorzeny rescuing Mussolini, capture of bridges in Holland, forts in Belgium in 1940.

Some of these support military ops, some are 'political/morale' actions. None are large enough to be division-level actions. What was? Dieppe? Anything else?

Sadly, scale of unit action vs scale of the game argues against having commando units. Seems that the best way to include commandos is to have some bonus to divisions, an attachments or a doctrine giving a bonus.

 

[GrimReaper]

I think we're talking about any of the various commando ops - USA=Capture Pointe du Hoc on D-Day, Makin Island Raid; UK=raids into Norway, the 'Cockleshell Heroes' attack on the sub pens in St. Nazaire (?); GER=Skorzeny rescuing Mussolini, capture of bridges in Holland, forts in Belgium in 1940.

Some of these support military ops, some are 'political/morale' actions. None are large enough to be division-level actions. What was? Dieppe? Anything else?

Sadly, scale of unit action vs scale of the game argues against having commando units. Seems that the best way to include commandos is to have some bonus to divisions, an attachments or a doctrine giving a bonus.

Agreed; it is for the best if commandos are not represented as units, or else they will probably be overused.

I know, because I overuse Paras a lot; in my last game I had 18 Para divs and 6 Advanced Transport planes

 

[unmerged(23238)]

I think we're talking about any of the various commando ops - USA=Capture Pointe du Hoc on D-Day, Makin Island Raid; UK=raids into Norway, the 'Cockleshell Heroes' attack on the sub pens in St. Nazaire (?); GER=Skorzeny rescuing Mussolini, capture of bridges in Holland, forts in Belgium in 1940.

Some of these support military ops, some are 'political/morale' actions. None are large enough to be division-level actions. What was? Dieppe? Anything else?

Sadly, scale of unit action vs scale of the game argues against having commando units. Seems that the best way to include commandos is to have some bonus to divisions, an attachments or a doctrine giving a bonus.

Good examples.
I still think those CommandoPoints, a bit like DI in HOI, could be a decent abstraction fit for HOI. The word 'commando' seems to cause some trouble on definitions, but maybe it will do anyway and cover a range of different operations regardless of size and deployment (perhaps even some partisan activities?)
I think it is obvious that specific new units on the map is not the answer, like a commando unit the size of a company would be an own unit. Nah. Regiment? Nah.
Bonus on existing units...? Perhaps, but that is allready covered to some extent in the existing HOI-world, is it not? Like researching recon batalions etc.

 

[MaximusII]

Hmmmmmm....Maybe it could be Brigades for some divisions????

 

[unmerged(25245)]

I agree that the game is too big to cordinate local tactics, but maybe it would be an idea to make an option where you could do commando opperatons in 1 area. For example, when attacking normandy you could have an option to do a spesific tactical event, like guard bridges to slow reenforcements to that spesific territory. Paratroopers might have this option when attacking a province. Also you could make the gAME more interesting by having spying options and double agents to confuse the oppontent on troop movement and even conduct sabotage on technology research. These are just my ideas but I think they would improve the game drasticly

 

[Tachikaze]

I agree that the game is too big to cordinate local tactics, but maybe it would be an idea to make an option where you could do commando opperatons in 1 area. For example, when attacking normandy you could have an option to do a spesific tactical event, like guard bridges to slow reenforcements to that spesific territory. Paratroopers might have this option when attacking a province. Also you could make the gAME more interesting by having spying options and double agents to confuse the oppontent on troop movement and even conduct sabotage on technology research. These are just my ideas but I think they would improve the game drasticly

Too much micro-management, that's what I think of that. I think it's best if we leave it to techs and events to sort these things out, they've managed it before IMO.

 

[Gwalcmai]

Besides, I doubt the AI would give much use to its commandos, or use them in silly ways, giving yet another advantage to the player.

 

[unmerged(33694)]

Infantry/Special Ops instead of Commando

If the game engine allows it would be good to make Infantry/SpecOps [just like ART,AT,AA or E], but such unit would lose its attack bonus after 24h from the attack. This would not allow the misuse of such units.
Of course, specops units have to be expensive, VERY costly to maintain and they must require a lot of time to be produced.
OR, they must have high attack and low defence values, which give an only attack type - expensive unit and maybe will decrease their use and misuse.
Anyhow, it would be a good thing to see them in HoI2