Coming October 24 2023 I Pre-Order Now I Cities: Skylines II

[Dayradon]

So I just read (at least partially so far) the latest DEV diary about:

#9: Economy & Production​

"However, money doesn’t circulate in a closed system and it doesn’t appear out of nowhere.Rents, import payments, company profits, and player income are money sinks that removemoney from the economic simulation. To balance the money sinks, the simulation also features money sources in the form of paid rents and company profits and the funds used by the player which are distributed so that half of them go to the citizens based on their education level and half are evenly distributed to the commercial buildings’ wealth. Other money sources are export income from businesses and city services, tourists, and the aforementioned government subsidies for the city and individual citizens."

This section is confusing. Rents are both a money sink and a source?

It lead to an interesting concept. Most cities (all) have multiple property management type firms. A common one I know in my city owns a plethora of residential townhomes, apartments. and I'm sure single/dual/tri family homes they rent out to. They could even operate commercial properties, or at the very least, an other company would be heavily divested in that category.

Instead of direct source/sinks related to rent, couldn't we have a couple of companies that A) collect rent/lease from properties, pay taxes on their profits? b) Additionally instead of zoning land for free, couldn't we sell an area to one of those companies with the designate that it be used solely for a type of zone res/com/ind ? We pay for the zoning costs, roads etc, design, they own it collect rent, pay taxes.

Just seems like a more realistic approach to rent source/sinks, (still not sure which it is or both?

 

[PedsNotCims]

So I just read (at least partially so far) the latest DEV diary about:

#9: Economy & Production​

"However, money doesn’t circulate in a closed system and it doesn’t appear out of nowhere.Rents, import payments, company profits, and player income are money sinks that removemoney from the economic simulation. To balance the money sinks, the simulation also features money sources in the form of paid rents and company profits and the funds used by the player which are distributed so that half of them go to the citizens based on their education level and half are evenly distributed to the commercial buildings’ wealth. Other money sources are export income from businesses and city services, tourists, and the aforementioned government subsidies for the city and individual citizens."

This section is confusing. Rents are both a money sink and a source?

It lead to an interesting concept. Most cities (all) have multiple property management type firms. A common one I know in my city owns a plethora of residential townhomes, apartments. and I'm sure single/dual/tri family homes they rent out to. They could even operate commercial properties, or at the very least, an other company would be heavily divested in that category.

Instead of direct source/sinks related to rent, couldn't we have a couple of companies that A) collect rent/lease from properties, pay taxes on their profits? b) Additionally instead of zoning land for free, couldn't we sell an area to one of those companies with the designate that it be used solely for a type of zone res/com/ind ? We pay for the zoning costs, roads etc, design, they own it collect rent, pay taxes.

Just seems like a more realistic approach to rent source/sinks, (still not sure which it is or both?

Sounds straightforward to me, though it could probably have been worded better

Assume that land is owned by the city
You zoning that land determines a company is allowed to go build on it
Company X pays ground rent to city (money source)
Tenant rents from Company X
Tenant pays rent to Company X (money sink)
City collects tax on tenant rent (income) from Company X

 

[Dayradon]

Sounds straightforward to me, though it could probably have been worded better

Assume that land is owned by the city
You zoning that land determines a company is allowed to go build on it
Company X pays ground rent to city (money source)
Tenant rents from Company X
Tenant pays rent to Company X (money sink)
City collects tax on tenant rent (income) from Company X

Ok that makes sense if it's tuned correctly.

Company rent must be lower than rent payed by tenant - ie: company turns a profit by subletting, taxes are paid on that profit.
company pays their rent to the city.

City should be collecting rent from business, and receive tax income of profit made from tenant rent, not taxes on tenant income.

This is only valid if it is assumed that the developer never owns or purchased the land for a lump sum from the city. would be much like a loan if we could sell a plot of land to a developer and specify it was zone as commercial etc. of course we would either hit a money sink to rezone it, or just not able to at all. ie: fast cash influx, at the cost of never being able to change it's zoning in the future unless big money spent.

 

[PedsNotCims]

Ok that makes sense if it's tuned correctly.

Company rent must be lower than rent payed by tenant - ie: company turns a profit by subletting, taxes are paid on that profit.
company pays their rent to the city.

City should be collecting rent from business, and receive tax income of profit made from tenant rent, not taxes on tenant income.

Not necessarily. Consider that ground rent (ie the rent paid for literally occupying the ground) paid to the city will generally be peanuts compared to the rent that a company will charge rent to a tenant of a building that they then built on the land rented from the city

However as the land value raises, so does the ground rent. Largely, cities willl not own buildings, but only the land on which they sit (many many exceptions exist of course)

That said, to complicate matters you then have social housing (low rent) which at least in large parts of the UK is owned by the city, and tenant rent is paid directly to the city, not a rental company

 

[antrachton]

Sounds straightforward to me, though it could probably have been worded better

Assume that land is owned by the city
You zoning that land determines a company is allowed to go build on it
Company X pays ground rent to city (money source)
Tenant rents from Company X
Tenant pays rent to Company X (money sink)
City collects tax on tenant rent (income) from Company X

That one is OK. What they really confused here is company profits. That's both where money sink and money resource which... doesn't make much sense.

 

[Dayradon]

Not necessarily. Consider that ground rent (ie the rent paid for literally occupying the ground) paid to the city will generally be peanuts compared to the rent that a company will charge rent to a tenant of a building that they then built on the land rented from the city

Agree - Conversely the city could sell the land and only collect property taxes based on the land value.

However as the land value raises, so does the ground rent. Largely, cities willl not own buildings, but only the land on which they sit (many many exceptions exist of course)

Partially incorrect. Largely, the land is owned by the property owners (at least in my country) albeit com/res/ind. and property taxes are paid to the city based on the value of the land. If the land owner decides to sublet, either a 100 unit condo, or single family home, they also have to pay income tax on said income. To get the land, it was bought, either from the city or from another entity that bought the land from the city, or how ever many sub-purchases until you reach the original entity that bought/received the land from the city/state/prov/country/realm/shire/district etc...

It would seem that public land (owned by the city) could constitute, parks, sidewalks, low income housing, all of which generate income directly in the form of entrance fees, rent, or none at all (sink). and non public owned land, generate income via initial purchase price (lump sum) property taxes, income tax on sublet rental fees.

If you had 2-3 major property companies at the start of the game, you could choose to zone and rent directly to tenants, create low income housing ,earn their rent. or sell a section of land to any/each of them (lump sum income) designate zone type, receive property taxes on value of land each year, receive income tax on revenue earned rent, and still receive income tax income from either household income, business income, etc.

That said, to complicate matters you then have social housing (low rent) which at least in large parts of the UK is owned by the city, and tenant rent is paid directly to the city, not a rental company

Not too complicated, simple rent = income * 30% - $dollar amount), and if =< 0 then 0

 

[Bl4ckSh33p]

Can we get a preorder bundle without the game please? Would be nice for game pass players to save some money at launch. (Redfall, Forza, Starfield etc all have premium / upgrade dlc without the game)

 

[zipim]

It would be great to be able to create a real countryside area with fields as far as the eye can see. This would not consume any hardware resources and would allow for the creation of huge maps. In addition, the agricultural areas would be more realistic as the fields in the real world are gigantic. In Cities Skylines 1, the fields are ridiculous compared to reality. Normally, 3/4 of a country is made up of forests, fields and mountain areas. Cities do not represent much.

It would also be great to create very sparsely populated residential areas, with houses very spaced apart. This would allow for very large maps without using significant material resources and to really create low-density areas far from the city center. It might be wise to create maps with a ratio of 10% dense cities and industries and 90% forests, fields, mountains, beaches, and sparsely populated businesses and homes. This way, boats, trains and highways would travel over very long distances.

 

[AS-Gaming]

What ever happened to Rat Infestations?

 

[ChiefLEGOMAN1]

What ever happened to Rat Infestations?

I believe the article may have been based on an early list of achievements that was made public by mistake.

 

[antrachton]

Wait for an insectous dlc

 

[aranboldtsutter]

I’m so excited for Cities 2! But lowkey, super disappointed about something seemingly small, but actually pretty big in terms of the way that city planning is moving worldwide under the influence of the urbanist movement: they appear to have raised the default speed limit for a 2-lane neighborhood street from 25 mph (40 km/h) to 30 mph (50 km/h)! Why are you making it more difficult to build slow neighborhood streets?! It looks like the 25 mph road available looks more like an alley frankly and should probably have a limit of 15 mph! I’m all for the faster 70 mph freeways, the added diversity of having middle speed 45 mph suburban roads, but where’s the narrower 20-25 mph tree-lined street with parked cars and a sidewalk?! You know, the kind that makes up the majority of residential streets in most cities in North America?! Moral of the story: “the heck? City planning is moving towards slower, not faster streets.”

 

[PedsNotCims]

I’m so excited for Cities 2! But lowkey, super disappointed about something seemingly small, but actually pretty big in terms of the way that city planning is moving worldwide under the influence of the urbanist movement: they appear to have raised the default speed limit for a 2-lane neighborhood street from 25 mph (40 km/h) to 30 mph (50 km/h)! Why are you making it more difficult to build slow neighborhood streets?! It looks like the 25 mph road available looks more like an alley frankly and should probably have a limit of 15 mph! I’m all for the faster 70 mph freeways, the added diversity of having middle speed 45 mph suburban roads, but where’s the narrower 20-25 mph tree-lined street with parked cars and a sidewalk?! You know, the kind that makes up the majority of residential streets in most cities in North America?! Moral of the story: “the heck? City planning is moving towards slower, not faster streets.”

Amazingly, there are countries other than America, whodathunk?

Most of UK residential street limits (Wales is excepted as they changed the limit to 20mph) is 30mph/50kmh, as is Germany, France and Italy within Europe (probably others too) and Australia. Japan is 40kmh. Brazil is 30kmh, and so on and so on

And all that said, its been stated that you can change speed limits at will in CS2

 

[aranboldtsutter]

Amazingly, there are countries other than America, whodathunk?

Most of UK residential street limits (Wales is excepted as they changed the limit to 20mph) is 30mph/50kmh, as is Germany, France and Italy within Europe (probably others too) and Australia. Japan is 40kmh. Brazil is 30kmh, and so on and so on

And all that said, its been stated that you can change speed limits at will in CS2

Amazingly, I mentioned nothing about the United States! Whodathunk?! (I do mention North America, in reference to what appears to me a lack of inclusion of the most common North American street layouts in a game that claims to have a North American theme as an option)

Most countries *do* have a default urban speed speed limit of 50 km/h, of course, but in most of these places the trend is for lower, not higher speed limits. You mentioned Wales as an example, whose limit is changing to 20 mph in just a few days, but this is the case in Spain as well as many major European cities who are moving to 30 km/h. In Australian and Canadian cities we see the same momentum to lower speed limits, though more often to 40 km/h in those places.

My point was not to complain that “the default limit doesn’t match the limit here in my US state!” (My US State of Minnesota also has a default urban speed limit of 30 mph). Rather, the criticism was regarding raising the default limit when the global momentum is moving the opposite direction.

That all being said, if you can change speed limits at will in Cities Skylines 2, then that’s the ideal, and I don’t really care what the defaults are if this is the case. But if I am stuck with the pre-determined default speed limits, then yes, I’m quite annoyed that the default speed limit is set higher than it was previously.

 

[willhen50]

Does Cities Skyline II work, without stutter or audio delay, on an HDD drive?
Several games have recently been released, and they don't work, well, unless they are installed on a SSD.
I have already prepaid, BUT, there is "grumblings" about whether this game will work on my equipment.
64G RAM check, Nvidea 3060RTX Graphic Card check, and 10TB HDD drive ??????

 

[AndrewT]

Does Cities Skyline II work, without stutter or audio delay, on an HDD drive?
Several games have recently been released, and they don't work, well, unless they are installed on a SSD.
I have already prepaid, BUT, there is "grumblings" about whether this game will work on my equipment.
64G RAM check, Nvidea 3060RTX Graphic Card check, and 10TB HDD drive ??????

What type of drive any game is installed on should only affect installation and load time, not gameplay. The exception would be if you ran out of available memory and Windows had to swap other stuff out to the paging file on that disk.

But this kind of question would be best posted in the CSL 2 forum.

 

[willhen50]

What type of drive any game is installed on should only affect installation and load time, not gameplay. The exception would be if you ran out of available memory and Windows had to swap other stuff out to the paging file on that disk.

But this kind of question would be best posted in the CSL 2 forum.

I disagree, with all due respect, graphic extensive games like STARFIELD has HD graphics, it needs a transfer speed greater than 70 MB/sec to load the audio and graphics together, otherwise there is audio stutter and long loading pauses as the game plays.
The transfer rate of an SSD is 200 MB/sec and an HDD is about 70 MB/sec. So installation is secondary to the game play itself. Thank you for your insight though.
Besides, I thought this was the "CSL 2" forum.

 

[Astores]

Well good

 

[AndrewT]

I disagree, with all due respect, graphic extensive games like STARFIELD has HD graphics, it needs a transfer speed greater than 70 MB/sec to load the audio and graphics together, otherwise there is audio stutter and long loading pauses as the game plays.

Weoll, if there are games that need to constantly load items from disk during play, I guess so. But this is a Unity game: Unity pre-loads everything, so that does not apply here.

Besides, I thought this was the "CSL 2" forum.

No, this is the CSL 1 forum.

 

[yonkobg]

I think you guys should add more construction simulation on buildings like they are growing from the ground like in cs1 with the cranes of cs 2 it will be more realistic now they just poping