• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Valhallas Call

Yankee Air Pirate
68 Badges
Jun 22, 2008
353
26
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Darkest Hour
  • Arsenal of Democracy
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife Pre-Order
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Rise of Prussia
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Deus Vult
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Semper Fi
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Magicka
  • Cities in Motion
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • For The Glory
Is it better to utilize different types of divisions in the same army (say, 4 infantry, 1 cavalry, and 1 dragoon all together) or split them up into separate units of all-cavalry and all-infantry?

Also, is it even worth it to build cavalry and dragoon divisions, since I'm assuming they become less viable in late-game, like what happened historically?
 

mike^_^

Custom User Title
5 Badges
Apr 4, 2006
501
20
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • 500k Club
cavalry + hussar are good all throughout the game in my opinion, for speed and exploiting pockets, cavalry + curassier are less so, but great for squashing rebels or uncivilized

dragoons in my opinion arent anything special, you should attach artillery to them for an extra punch, while still being a little faster than infantry (if i recall)

also, there is really no point in grouping infantry/cavalry because that then makes the cavalry basically worthless, as they lose their speed and have to move the same rate as infantry they are grouped with
 

unmerged(17791)

KO'd, Replaced by Newer Equip.
Jun 24, 2003
1.863
0
Visit site
Anything on horseback is essentially crap 2 (3 at most) decades into the game. Sure, the CAV w/ cool-guy brigades are fast and can mow down small-sized enemy formations, but they're expensive as hell and not really worth it. Plus they tend to die (take casualties) at an alarming rate, with the low defense ratings. So, A) they're very expensive, B) they deplete your soldier POPs like they're going out of style, C) they're offensive power is nothing to write home about... because most of the army techs are going to be boosting the infantry. So effectively the mounted troops become more and more obsolete, with each passing year / tech. By a certain point (and not that long into the game), they're just crap, all together. I let my horsies get down to just a couple hundred men per division, and then station them in places where I want to lower MIL, but not actually have to worry about an actual revolt (which would quickly kill them). They basically become a police force.

As for organizing the 'real men' army corps, it depends. Having a HQ division can be advantageous so that the corps will fight on, even if the others get low morale. Suppose you have a corps of 4 divisions; 3 artillery and 1 HQ... and you've got them well-entrenched in a mountainous region with lots of trees. Great defensive terrain. Then the enemy attacks you with 180k men. The battle lasts for months, and the enemy is fighting ineffectively, and taking huge attrition on the 1st of each month. Obviously, you want this battle to go on as long as possible... only retreating when you're RIGHT about to lose a division(s), which you don't want to lose. So, the HQ can make this happen. Their high morale will ensure that the enemy just can't seem to force you out of there, forcing you to fight to the last man (again, at horrible kill ratios, for the enemy).

But mostly, I try to organize my units so that no one is getting screwed over regarding their speed (speed is paramount). Thus, all the artillery tend to get grouped together - probably with a leader that increases speed... and they sort of function as the 'heavy armor' of the army (expensive, devestatingly lethal, but slow & carefully deployed). Then you might have an engineer corps... several divisions with engineer brigades -very tough defensively- which you use to hold the line in places where you want to put up a stone wall against enemy advancement... as you move out offensively, nearby.

Guards are just an infantry unit on steroids... they can be mixed with infantry, or whatever. Anywhere you want that 'extra-cool-guy' bonus, just put some guards in there, and they'll provide a slightly more effective fighting force.

Regulars, I use to increase the 'bullet sponge' effect... mainly for foreign troops. For example, "you can only create 6 divisions with (conquered) culture XYZ". OK, fine. Well guess what, all those divisions are going to have regulars. My way of putting more regular troops into the field, but still not exceeding the limit. Regulars are fairly cost-effective. It's literally 120% of an infantry division... just over-strength. But, it'll still bleed the same as regular infantry. It's not all cool-guy, like the guards (but, regulars have their uses, even for the national culture... like I said, they're pretty cost effective). So, use the tough defensive units (ART, ENG, GRD, etc.) for your own home culture POPs. Then put a bunch of foreign troops in there, with regulars. They'll take higher casualties. But, screw 'em. That's why we conquered them in the first place.

Vanilla infantry can have it's uses, when you stack a whole bunch of them together, like 1/4 million men. I just wrote a bunch of on this, in this thread. Bascially in great (highly cost-effective) numbers, the sheer numbers themselves can give vanilla infantry a whole new attribute, on it's own. There is always something to be said for sheer numbers. I've seen 40,000 high quality troops (1 art, 1 eng, etc.) dug in very tight at a place that was full of hills and trees. But, when you attack with 1/2 million men, from several directions, suddenly no one seems to care how well you're dug in, or what the stinkin' terrain is. You will die -quick- and the large army will take very low casualties, compared to if it attacked with a more 'standard sized' formation.

But bottom line is, each of the units (namely ENG, ART) has it's own special attributes, and I like to concentrate them together, and capitalize on each of their strengths. 'Mixed units' do not really appeal to me. If you're an engineer, you should be with other engineers -- so I can put you in a certain place and form a really stiff defensive fortress in a sector of the front, so I can then use other units to go on offense, and not worry about that flank.

One last thing about CAV, they can be useful as late as the 1860s, when you group a bunch of them together. But even then, their casualties are too high, they're too expensive, and they're really not THAT much freakin' faster than the foot soldiers. CAV & HUS have limited uses in the game. A small number of them can be OK, but I seldom ever find myself 'recruiting a cavalry division'. Usually the ones I start with, are more than adequate.
 

unmerged(15623)

Gensui-kakka
Mar 17, 2003
2.142
0
Visit site
Enginners should really be allocated 1 per army instead of engineer only armies. Even single unit of eng in an army will increase the max dug in of all divisions in it by 20, which is especially critical when you first get them at a time when max dug in is normally 40.

Personally, I like to use armies with lots of variety, they are usually all unique in composition, but all have at least one engi and one arty. Should be noted though, that I do that for flavour alone.

The speed isn't that neccessary against AI. You can get the "first there" defensive bonus by using cavalry or dragoons anyway. And that's pretty much only real use the horsies have.
 

unmerged(17791)

KO'd, Replaced by Newer Equip.
Jun 24, 2003
1.863
0
Visit site
Väinö I said:
Enginners should really be allocated 1 per army instead of engineer only armies. Even single unit of eng in an army will increase the max dug in of all divisions in it by 20, which is especially critical when you first get them at a time when max dug in is normally 40.

I see the AI use that tactic effectively fairly often. They like to take corps like that, and put them in a mountainous, wooded place. Some kind of 'last redoubt' strategy, it seems to me. I.e., they expect to get their @ss kicked, and do most of the 'real fighting' when all the modifiers are in their favor. But anyway, what you describe above is a good idea... if you plan on taking your typical army corps unit(s), and digging in. I usually always remain on offense, and I just use a concentration of strong defense (ENG) units, to strengthen key areas.

But usually the idea is to win as fast and decisively as possible, and that doesn't involve much 'digging in' on the part of the majority of your corps. But again, for a more overall defensive posture (not what I usually arrange for myself), what you say is indeed a good point.
 

ninjaska

Corporal
16 Badges
Sep 22, 2004
44
1
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • 500k Club
  • Stellaris
  • Victoria 3 Sign Up
oi,
I use HQ or Eng regurals with 6 divisions of artillery natives. I know that native-artillery is somewhat exploit, but I Play To Win. :rolleyes:
7 div. is good size for Corps, becouse you can see all units without using slider.
HQ give you nice morale bonus so your natives won't retreat after first shock.
Thats all mixing I use: one regulars (for morale) and many natives divisions.
Simple, cheap and effective.
 

HMS Enterprize

On loan to the C.S Navy
26 Badges
Jun 21, 2004
4.903
57
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Necroids
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Ancient Relics
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron II: Armageddon
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Victoria: Revolutions
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Iron Cross
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Darkest Hour
When non-national POPs were not an issue in the old builds of vicky I used to use 3 arty, 1 HQ & 1 Engineer in a single stack.

Then the patches started to make arty way more expensive so I swapped out 2 of the arty for guards.

Now in ricky I usually use 2 guards & 1 engineer to a stack as a proper corps.

After reading that post about HQs I may start adding in a HQ unit again and making the corps small Armys again.

But I suppose a generic good stack for a reasonably manpower available state would be-
1 arty
1 engineer
1 guards
1 HQ

(or perhaps swap the guards for another arty if you are wealthy) (or just attach all the arty to native divisions :D )

Opinions on this?