They stated the game will be real-time and I was wondering if combat will be like stardrive 1 or sins of a solar empire or if it will be like previous paradox games where you have unit stacks And the ai simulates the battle
Combat
- Thread starter Axe64
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Well, they have put out screenshots showing ships blasting away at each other with missiles and beams. In addition, I recall a dev saying that the underlying model is on the level of individual weapon attacks. So it seems very likely that it won't be a mostly-abstract stack-vs-stack fight. Of course, that doesn't neccessarily mean that they can't take a few shortcuts in the simulation here and there. The SotS approach where they are tracking every sub-munition as it's own physical entity and location-specific deflection and damage might be overkill.
They said the AI handles battles, like in other Paradox games. The new twist is that the units are fighting a real 3D battle rather than boxes filled with numbers throwing math at each other, though obviously numbers will still underlie everything.
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Mainly what I'm saying is if there would be a actual battle it's ok if there was some simulation simulations can be exploited either way I still would like combat though. I saw the screen shots looked nice
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This is pretty how I understood it as well. To be honest I don't see much point in a detailed combats system Paradox's strength has always been everything else.
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A detailed combat system provides hooks for more interesting weapons, defenses and ship design in general. Ship design and space combat is a big draw for this sort of game. I for one would be pretty disappointing if fleet combat was abstracted down to something like "I have 5 techlevel 12 ships versus his 7 techlevel 10 ships".
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I can think of at least 3 reasons
1 is that simulated battles with no real battle can be exploited and generally make game less realistic/immersive. in total war you have option to simulate but everyone knows in that game it's bad to do cuz numbers and math don't take into account tactics people can exploit this as well by making a fleet based on fleets that are uninspired and based and what gives you the most bonuses rather than actual tactics and strategy in building designs
2 they wanted people to be able to design ships what's the point if they have no actual impact in a battle since its simulated might as well just take default designs. does it matter if your ship is all forward facing weapons no. Does it matter if you have short range weapons no.
3 players have less options they just have 2 stacks attack each other They can't decide if they want to harass with bombers shoot long range art or get up close with high powered short range weapons the ai all decides that for you
1 is that simulated battles with no real battle can be exploited and generally make game less realistic/immersive. in total war you have option to simulate but everyone knows in that game it's bad to do cuz numbers and math don't take into account tactics people can exploit this as well by making a fleet based on fleets that are uninspired and based and what gives you the most bonuses rather than actual tactics and strategy in building designs
2 they wanted people to be able to design ships what's the point if they have no actual impact in a battle since its simulated might as well just take default designs. does it matter if your ship is all forward facing weapons no. Does it matter if you have short range weapons no.
3 players have less options they just have 2 stacks attack each other They can't decide if they want to harass with bombers shoot long range art or get up close with high powered short range weapons the ai all decides that for you
Given the non-linear tech system, I don't see how they could avoid having fairly detailed combat modules.
Yeah, the tech model, the ship design model and the combat model all interlock. It will be great to see more details of those aspects.
depends on what you consider detailed. but i dont believe having a nonlinear tech system is what makes it detailed. but im not saying it wont be detailed im just not informed about the tech system so explain plz
I just mean that in EUIV and CK2 there's a direct and clear progression of military tech in the form of flat and multiplicative modifiers, which works fine because those games use linear technology. Stellaris will have discrete technologies that can be unlocked in any order, so even if they use the exact same unit modifiers as in EUIV, any two given empire's ships will have a mishmash of modifiers that make them distinct. Even if you have 20 military techs in the engineering tree, you might not have better ships than an enemy who has only 10 military techs, which can never be the case in other Paradox games.
The first or second dev diary specifically say that each missile or laser beam is real meaning that if you see a missile hit a target and the target explode, it is that missile that deliver the killing blow and not a dice in the background while the missile is only for show.
Thus battle seems to be tactical battle, where positioning, types and stuff affect the outcome.
Thus battle seems to be tactical battle, where positioning, types and stuff affect the outcome.
what zarine said. it looks like the combat system will visually be like SoaSE; i.e. multiple ships on the 3D plane shooting each other to death. what kinda unnerves me is that you don't have the same kind of fine tactical control as SoaSE. as far as we know, you can't just give an order mid-battle to target a certain ship or move somewhere.
You are probably only going to be able to force a retreat from battle and that's going to be pretty much the control that you have.
I think ship combat will be very similar to say the HoI series but slightly more detailed and played out in real 3D so much more fun to watch.
I do think that ship design will play a big role since you can watch the combat and assess the performance of your ships. I just hope there will be some development cost involved in creating ship designs so there are more choices between balanced and specialist ship designs.
I think ship combat will be very similar to say the HoI series but slightly more detailed and played out in real 3D so much more fun to watch.
I do think that ship design will play a big role since you can watch the combat and assess the performance of your ships. I just hope there will be some development cost involved in creating ship designs so there are more choices between balanced and specialist ship designs.
I didn't really care for the prototype cost in SotS2. IMO, it made me be too generalist. I'd rather the drawback of specialist be that you can't be entirely sure who or what you are going to face.
I personally don't like it because it is a gamey mechanic where you can tailor your fleets depending on the AI fleets too easy and then the AI have a hard time countering you since the AI are not as good at it.
In a good prototyping system you can have both generalist and specialist ships. In general the larger and more expensive a ship is the more jack of all trades you are going to build them with perhaps a few exceptions.
I simply like the realism in it...
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I think it's hard to find a prototype cost that works for both small and large empires. However, allowing free design of ships shouldn't mean that you can turn your existing fleet of beam dreadnaughts into missile carriers to take advantage of the opponent du jour's lack of strong point defense. Make ships expensive and time-consuming to build and limit upgrades options to realistic levels and you won't be able to constantly tailor your fleet. At the same time, you can design a group of ships that work together, so you have a generalist fleet composed of specialist ships.