Combat Witdh

[misiceman]

actually all this talk of modifiers has me wondering where the shock and fire multipliers are (as in the new idea ones like Muscovy). Are they their own distinct multiplier or are they rolled into something like Combat ability. If they are on their own that makes them quite powerful. Maybe the same magical place that the horde multiplier is? Also would make the reduced damage ones also quite powerfull

I would love an updated formula from Paradox

@Quaade The reason its "hard" is that they arn't that obvious and actually dependent on the previous phases, especially since you cant seem some of them on the opponent at a quick glance. Either looking through their ideas and tech level in the diplo screen (then probably checking a chart) then to seeing their active disc in the combat screen, etc... its kind all over the place. Assuming equal tech the only major differences will be NIs, Idea sets and pips. Once you out tech (especially in tactics), barring them having obscene discipline or other game breaking imbalance, you should be winning that war regardless.

Like most games with multipliers in a damage formula, one of the simplest ways to game the system is to stack like modifiers. Doesnt always work but most times it does. True if its Diablo, D&D or EU4. It really depends what the defensive modifiers could be and frankly this game doesnt really have a large way we can manipulate that outside terrain and crossings (and maybe multiple unit types and going heavy on defensive pips).

This is making me want to make a mod or spread sheet that has the accurate damage formula to see how "effective" unit comps could be. Not most cost effective (I think we get those). Just most punishing.

 

[Quaade]

Either looking through their ideas and tech level in the diplo screen (then probably checking a chart) then to seeing their active disc in the combat screen, etc... its kind all over the place. Assuming equal tech the only major differences will be NIs, Idea sets and pips. Once you out tech (especially in tactics), barring them having obscene discipline or other game breaking imbalance, you should be winning that war regardless.

That is were spies could come in real handy... To spy on enemy forces... However, still think they made the EU4 army system too simple... in EU4 you could go quantity or quality which actually made armies feel difference... Personally I love going small damage dealing armies... But you don´t lack from doing this... Pretty sure in EU4 you had penalties in manpower or you didn´t get the bonus at least...

About the damage modifiers, perhaps @Frogbait have already checked that?

 

[misiceman]

The problem with spies is its a delicate balance. Either they are going to have a direct effect or they don't. If they do, have fun balancing that, I am sure Paradox has (If you cant tell sarcasm in writing, its dripping right there..) If they don't, how valuable is the info. Outside of knowing troop movements in large empires, probably not much. This is especially true since we have the all knowing ledger. Thus we are sort of left with what we got. Outside a major overhaul I dont see espionage as a thing in EU4 much beyond what it is already.

 

[Zwirbaum]

actually all this talk of modifiers has me wondering where the shock and fire multipliers are (as in the new idea ones like Muscovy). Are they their own distinct multiplier or are they rolled into something like Combat ability. If they are on their own that makes them quite powerful. Maybe the same magical place that the horde multiplier is? Also would make the reduced damage ones also quite powerfull

I would love an updated formula from Paradox

@Quaade The reason its "hard" is that they arn't that obvious and actually dependent on the previous phases, especially since you cant seem some of them on the opponent at a quick glance. Either looking through their ideas and tech level in the diplo screen (then probably checking a chart) then to seeing their active disc in the combat screen, etc... its kind all over the place. Assuming equal tech the only major differences will be NIs, Idea sets and pips. Once you out tech (especially in tactics), barring them having obscene discipline or other game breaking imbalance, you should be winning that war regardless.

Like most games with multipliers in a damage formula, one of the simplest ways to game the system is to stack like modifiers. Doesnt always work but most times it does. True if its Diablo, D&D or EU4. It really depends what the defensive modifiers could be and frankly this game doesnt really have a large way we can manipulate that outside terrain and crossings (and maybe multiple unit types and going heavy on defensive pips).

This is making me want to make a mod or spread sheet that has the accurate damage formula to see how "effective" unit comps could be. Not most cost effective (I think we get those). Just most punishing.

Shock damage modifier from ideas, era abilities, leaders etc. are just multiplicative modifier applied to the casualties dealt what would be dealt normally.

 

[Rexos]

Woah....oh god guys, you went pretty far with this one

 

[misiceman]

That sounds like the EU4 forums in a nutshell

 

[Quaade]

That sounds like the EU4 forums in a nutshell

What... we are stil combat adjacent... We haven´t even begun discussing modern day politics or WW2... Pff... Don´t lie man... that´s just dishonest :-D

 

[alexti]

I can get behind that arguement, that cannons in combat are not 3 times more effective... However, not having cannons in the fire phase and battling something with cannons... That is more costly as far as I have experienced it, since I lose way too much in comparison to the other.

That's not really the question of not having cannons (still talking about the early game), it's more of not having anything in the back row. If you had back row full of infantry you would be doing fine vs enemy's artillery back row.

actually all this talk of modifiers has me wondering where the shock and fire multipliers are (as in the new idea ones like Muscovy). Are they their own distinct multiplier or are they rolled into something like Combat ability. If they are on their own that makes them quite powerful. Maybe the same magical place that the horde multiplier is? Also would make the reduced damage ones also quite powerfull

AFAIK, all modifiers except the tech modifier are non-compounding (1+c_1+..c_n). But the tech modifier compounds with the aggregate of additive ones.

 

[misiceman]

That's not really the question of not having cannons (still talking about the early game), it's more of not having anything in the back row. If you had back row full of infantry you would be doing fine vs enemy's artillery back row.


AFAIK, all modifiers except the tech modifier are non-compounding (1+c_1+..c_n). But the tech modifier compounds with the aggregate of additive ones.

thats sounds right.

On a funny note.. I boot up the game just now... tip of the splash screen (which i didnt screen shot in time) says about when comparing units dont just look at pips look at the fire and shock modifiers too.......

Someone at Paradox is trolling me hard....