Combat the weak point of the game?

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Siggerad

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Hi, i watch the Blorg streams and im a bit worried about the combat mechanic, maybe other players can help me about. I read some steam forum posts and they call combat a weak point on the game. Change or alter your ships is only cosmetic? because if the enemy destroy your fleet take a lot of time to rebuild so what can you do? after destroy the enemy fleet you have a free pass to siege all? is me or is the same combat mechanic of EU4?
 
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LastLeviathan

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People like to talk a lot of what they know little about. In this case, no one here has played the game. In fact, all we've seen is a bit of combat in a stream that is nightly builds and just rushing through features more or less. Take these threads with a grain of salt.

To answer your questions, the ship designer is in depth, you can choose weapons, shielding, etc. If your fleet is completely wiped out, it will take time to rebuild, however, there is a retreat mechanic known as emergency FTL to get your fleet out before it is in that state so you can fall back and replenish ships at the very least. It is not the exact same mechanics as EU4, though I'm sure parts are inspired from it.
 
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I read some steam forum posts and they call combat a weak point on the game.
Most of the forum posts were calling GROUND COMBAT the weak point of the game.

Change or alter your ships is only cosmetic?
Did you actually pay attention during ship design during the stream? Wiz had to adjust his weapon type/modules as well as armor/shield ratio in order to counter enemy ships' composition and weapon type. Hardly cosmetic.

because if the enemy destroy your fleet take a lot of time to rebuild so what can you do?
How about don't let all your ships get wiped out in one battle in the first place? If all else fails, spam cheap Corvettes, raid their systems to force their fleet to react, and then pick off separated smaller fleets.

after destroy the enemy fleet you have a free pass to siege all?
Why shouldn't you be able to carpet siege IF you've completely wiped out the enemy fleet? Watch the stream: Wiz merely split off his fleet in half to siege two planets simultaneously and paid the price dearly because he didn't actually wipe out enemy fleet yet.

is me or is the same combat mechanic of EU4?
EU4 battle is cat-and-mouse ping-pong thanks to shatter retreats and fort zone of control, so no, it's quite the opposite in Stellaris.
 
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Matthias77

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The last stream took my fear of a boring/weak combat system. It was an intense direction changing number of battles with the AI using weak points in Wiz' offense.
I predicted a steamroll, but that was not the case, which was good. But it is to early to say, as I don't have the game yet :(
 
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Reaperdamo

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I personally think the fighting looks okay, but then they keep fkying into each other and it descends into a mess. Really disappointed that fleets engage like a swarm of bees. Can this be changed? It's the most immersion damaging aspect of the game.
 
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Reaperdamo

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Yes. Combat computers and long range weapons.

Well I shall wait till release. Because nothing will overcome my hype. But in the recent blorg stream the ai had rockets, and the blorg fleet was shooting them down and the fleet was winning. Then they kept on flying into the ai fleet and ended up retreating so if they had kept their distance they would have won. So I hope that these combat computer allow this. Or at least we should be able to tell our fleets to hold position. Anyway it's the only negative I have in a field of hype.
 

yafeshan

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Fleet combats were quite good for my taste. Efficient fighting force requires a lot of planning and enemy knowledge. I understand that there is concern when you see space battle itself becomes one big ball of mess but if you watch carefully you can see some late arriving ships stays in missile range while the short range ships were brawling in close combat. Range, weapon type, tank preferences matter a lot. What can we ask more from a 4x game, homeworld battles?
 
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Reaperdamo

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Fleet combats were quite good for my taste. Efficient fighting force requires a lot of planning and enemy knowledge. I understand that there is concern when you see space battle itself becomes one big ball of mess but if you watch carefully you can see some late arriving ships stays in missile range while the short range ships were brawling in close combat. Range, weapon type, tank preferences matter a lot. What can we ask more from a 4x game, homeworld battles?

Agreed. I'm not one of those people wanting tactical combat. I just like pretty light shows and space combat. I'm not a tactical fan and don't expect it.
 
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chassepatrick

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Most of those threads came from when Wiz went to war with what is now the north of Blorg space. He absolutely wiped out a militarist lizard people. And I myself was worried that the game was going to be a boring death stack vs death stack game... This was proved to be a bug where the AI wasn't developing it's economy.

The most recent stream showed us a lot more combat in depth. Fleet composition and design played a decisive role and Wiz actually looked like he went a little quiet for a bit as he tried to sort the situation out. Battleships were beaten by swarms of smaller ships without screens. Wiz's bigger/equal size fleet was destroyed by a well designed fleet which forced Wiz to pause and redesign his ships.

I still think having the bigger fleet is very important but at least there is a trade off of using a "doomstack" as we saw with the raiding. I am sure there will be a Warfare DLC down the road adding more stuff but I really think Wiz and others have done a good job of making the game's combat...
 
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PSarchi

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Hi, i watch the Blorg streams and im a bit worried about the combat mechanic, maybe other players can help me about. I read some steam forum posts and they call combat a weak point on the game. Change or alter your ships is only cosmetic? because if the enemy destroy your fleet take a lot of time to rebuild so what can you do? after destroy the enemy fleet you have a free pass to siege all? is me or is the same combat mechanic of EU4?
i think it will be changed in future dlcs, adding new strategies and etc, but at this standpoint devs just made priority not to do so just to make this awesome extrapolation and dip 4x game.
 

NapoleonComple

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As mentioned, keeping a reserve is standard for warfare. If it is early in the game and you have no strategic depth, of course the first major fleet battle may decide things. That's part of the hazard of early warfare. If things are later on and you're foolish enough to lose your entire fleet in one cataclysmic event, then a) you should have time to rebuild at least something, b) you should have done better reconnaissance and discovered what your enemy was using and c) even if you lose a war, you're unlikely to lose more than a few planets, which could be made up through colonisation and war elsewhere. In addition, your enemy's conquests will alarm neighbours, which gives you opportunities to make alliances. You also have the advantage of a five year break, during which you can build a fleet tailor made to destroy the ships that trounced you the first time round! I saw lots of things to make life difficult for the conquerors and give the losing side time to recover.

It is important that conquest and expansion isn't made too painful. Otherwise, why would anyone ever declare war? A game where all the mighty war fleets stay at home staring across the border intimidatingly can be tense; cold wars are often fun to simulate. But if no one dares actually start the main event, that will eventually grow boring!
 
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Voidlord

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Well I shall wait till release. Because nothing will overcome my hype. But in the recent blorg stream the ai had rockets, and the blorg fleet was shooting them down and the fleet was winning. Then they kept on flying into the ai fleet and ended up retreating so if they had kept their distance they would have won. So I hope that these combat computer allow this. Or at least we should be able to tell our fleets to hold position. Anyway it's the only negative I have in a field of hype.
Remember that horrible alternate timeline where Mercedes Romeo was killed by the Ikazuri Ascendancy? The IA fleets hung back and artillered Wiz fleet to death due to their Battle Computers...
 
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Vargur

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I'd rather say warfare is the weak point.
For a large part due to the UI not being up to scratch for managing large multi front wars.
What you've seen in the last stream wasn't even a huge war yet, but it was hard to manage and i'd say even impossible without pausing and zooming.
This is going to cause people in multiplayer quite a headache and it might lead to people only using the smallest galaxy size to avoid micromanagement hell in late game.
 
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barny

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I find the actual visuals of the battles not particularly great. The range of most weapons seems to be too small so the fleets just bunch up making it really hard to follow who is shooting on who and who is actually losing.

I think that the battle screen is also missing a list of the loses, so if you don't memorize what ships the fleets had, you have no idea what ships and how many got destroyed. There also doesn't seem to be a battle result screen, I think?
 
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REDDQ

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I'd rather say warfare is the weak point.
For a large part due to the UI not being up to scratch for managing large multi front wars.
What you've seen in the last stream wasn't even a huge war yet, but it was hard to manage and i'd say even impossible without pausing and zooming.
This is going to cause people in multiplayer quite a headache and it might lead to people only using the smallest galaxy size to avoid micromanagement hell in late game.

HoI 3 flashbacks! Maybe in some patch we will be able to create theatres and automate them ;)



Also those wonderful NATO counters wouldn't go a miss XD
 

cedi

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I'd rather say warfare is the weak point.
For a large part due to the UI not being up to scratch for managing large multi front wars.
What you've seen in the last stream wasn't even a huge war yet, but it was hard to manage and i'd say even impossible without pausing and zooming.
This is going to cause people in multiplayer quite a headache and it might lead to people only using the smallest galaxy size to avoid micromanagement hell in late game.

Remember the "zones are bad, we want to develop all planets ourselves people"... that would have been fun, especially in mp. (I don't think wiz upgraded a single building during the whole 10 year of war.)
 
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