combat supply usage

[Wyrm]

I've never truly been short on supplies. I've never even had my industry fighting to keep up with my consumption. Take a look at these figures:

http://orbat.com/site/sturmvogel/GermAmmoPoland.html

During the invasion of Poland the ammo-usage was much greater than the current production rates and significant percentages of the stockpiles were used, with 37mm shells topping the list at over 30% of total storages.

This I'd like to have better modelled in the game, meaning that a major offensive will strain the production and drain the stores of supplies more realisticly. Maybe with the production line system we might see better representation of this if you specific lines to build supplies/ammo meaning you can't just pour more IC in it and double your production in a day that you could in HOI3.

 

[Centurion1973]

I agree. Ammo production lines would force nations to stockpile before big battles, which would make HoI4 much more realistic.

 

[Secret Master]

Well, we have no idea how supply will be produced with the new IC set up as far as I know.

What I'm personally hoping is that stockpiling supplies will be critical for offensives. Regardless of the effect on industry, I want offensives to sometimes peter out simply because they exhausted their stockpiles of artillery ammunition and fuel.

 

[oribiasi]

Don't you think they had military-specific supplies though? In other words, MREs, ammunition, etc, all stored in forward positions? In addition, in my historical research/reading, a lot of soldiers on all sides used captured enemy equipment (rifles and ammunition were the main things used) all the time, and I don't think there is any provision in HoI for this, is there?

 

[Smileyou]

yup good idea, very important to simulate it, .. as Secret Master said, especially when conducting big offensives it should
be noted to stockpile arty shells, and other ammo, and bigger the offensive operation(if it takes more than 1 army or even
Army group than it should be equivelant of 3 months ammo production) the more ammo and TIME needed to stockpile
it next to the front line-aka supply depot..


and then mix in the idea of intelligence and counter-intelligence to hide the location so it doesn't end up being bombed and
in this way reduced by such and such percentage. Would force you to think how much IC/leadership points to put in counter
intelligence to protect the location before the offensive.

It would create a more natural flow of battle where big offensives happen, then if successful advancement of armies,
then second smaller offensive,then advancement and then probing in 3rd very soft offensive which mostly fails and
then consolidation phase. all of this happens in due time, 3 months to prep., 1 month to execute, 1 month to finish it all(end
the consolidation phase-would depend how messed up you got during the offensive, losses, how much supplies used etc).

 

[Smileyou]

@oribiasi.. not likely..you can pillage here and there, but majority of ammo must be from your industry, same goes for other equippment.. so all in all
supplies were sometimes being delivered and stored for major offensives up to 3 months until enough of them for successful operation were assembled.

For Bagration operation in Byelorussia by USSR the ammount of trains bringing shells was insane, .. just insane.. you basically have to create huuuge
surplus of what your army would normally need to "hold the line" if you are to wage an offensive.

 

[Secret Master]

In addition, in my historical research/reading, a lot of soldiers on all sides used captured enemy equipment (rifles and ammunition were the main things used) all the time, and I don't think there is any provision in HoI for this, is there?

Umm, your armies capture supply and fuel all the time when conducting offensives in HOI3.

Supply is present on the map. If an enemy force occupies a province with, say, 15 supply and 5 fuel (because the units stationed there had their 30 day stockpile sitting there), they get all 15 supply and 5 fuel right there for immediate use. It's absolutely vital to game play. This doesn't even address capturing the capital of an enemy and looting it for their entire supply, fuel, and resource stockpiles.

 

[oribiasi]

Supply is present on the map. If an enemy force occupies a province with, say, 15 supply and 5 fuel (because the units stationed there had their 30 day stockpile sitting there), they get all 15 supply and 5 fuel right there for immediate use. It's absolutely vital to game play. This doesn't even address capturing the capital of an enemy and looting it for their entire supply, fuel, and resource stockpiles.

I guess I wasn't clear in what I wrote; the supplies captured might not be useful for a county's weapons, etc.

 

[No idea]

Well, we have no idea how supply will be produced with the new IC set up as far as I know.

What I'm personally hoping is that stockpiling supplies will be critical for offensives. Regardless of the effect on industry, I want offensives to sometimes peter out simply because they exhausted their stockpiles of artillery ammunition and fuel.

I recall reading that the more time you spend preparing for an offensive (which should be basically stockpiling supplies, ammo and training men to deal with specific tactical objectives) the more bonus we will get (although the more time the enemy has to figure out our intentions). So, in a way, it seems stockpiling ammo for important offensives will make its way into the game.

Regarding supply use (it is an old request) a unit in combat should consume several times more supplies than a unit out of combat.

 

[Secret Master]

Regarding supply use (it is an old request) a unit in combat should consume several times more supplies than a unit out of combat.

I agree.

 

[Axe99]

Well, we have no idea how supply will be produced with the new IC set up as far as I know.

What I'm personally hoping is that stockpiling supplies will be critical for offensives. Regardless of the effect on industry, I want offensives to sometimes peter out simply because they exhausted their stockpiles of artillery ammunition and fuel.

This could potentially go a long way to slowing down offensives as well, and create 'spaces' in-between actions, a la the actual conflict. Perhaps the Battle Plan system is inked into stockpiling? If it was, it would go very nicely .

 

[Smileyou]

@axe, yes indeed, it will go nicely, as of now in Hoi3 offensives can go on seemingly unbroken
series, without any real time-out(except time to org back again).. while now with supplies needed
for big offensives it could end up with getting those war-decisive moments aka Stalingrad, Kursk
that can end up determining the war outcome..


Something similar should be in Naval war, so we don't get 100 naval engagements with 1 ship lost
on each, but 2,3 decisive ones where the looser can end up without 60% of its ships..