- Mar 6, 2004
So, attack & defense both used or just one, depending on the combat initiation?
It's not completely clear, but it appears the attack stat is used primarily by the attacking army and the defense stat is used primarily by the defending army. There's a possibility they are both used to a lesser degree by both armies but that's just not clear from the testing I did...I think if it is it's probably negligible.So, attack & defense both used or just one, depending on the combat initiation?
If you actually played the game it doesn't take a genius to figure out attack value is used when you attack and defense value is used when you defend.
The formulas in that article make no mention of the defense stat and it's not clear specifically when each are used. It's obvious the attack stat is used more by the attacker and the defense stat is used more by the defender but the exact formulas are a mystery at least to me.The wiki article below explains the formula for land combat. Is there any reason to think that this is no longer correct?
I think that's a great list of questions. If you have the time and know-how to find answers to those then you will have at least one grateful admirer (me), and I suspect many more.I will probably do some testing myself later on (once i find the free time...). Might be helpfull to go after specific questions.
- Is Defense used only when defending or in every battle? If yes, is there a switch, e.g. every new diceroll?
- Why are defense and offense stats differing in tests (see GC13s tests)? How?
- How important are dice rolls vs. stats?
- How important are generals/hills/rivers?
- What are the other stats doing (org/morale)?
- What is the damage formula (the grail)?
Did i miss anything important? Feel free to add, i will however first try to get down only a single day of combat to get the values effects and relations straight.
This is consistent with what I found and posted further up in the thread. Die rolls are by far the most important. They also play a role in determining how bad losses are on the losing side (the greater the gap between the winning and losing roll, the more the losses will be).Alright, halfway through testing the 11/5 defenders some more, I realized that comparing end-of-battle casualties was a sucker's game. Not only was it getting skewed in favor of the defenders because usually when they brought reinforcements to the battle it was because they were losing, but the game shows us the die roll, right?
So this time, I went and compared the armies' org and str on the fifth day of battle (i.e. after all fighting using the first die roll was done). These numbers are unequivocal: defenders only use their def stat, not their atk stat at all. So cheers to that.
It also gives me a good idea of how crucial the die roll is. Having a general that gives you a mere +1 in the battle is probably more important than having a +3 to your units' relevant stats. For very low rolls, it's can trump a five-point disparity.
The old formula tossed around for damage includes a 10+Unit stat, which sits perfectly with the ~40% gain in damage I saw going from 5 to 11 (21/15=1.4), and you saw going from 5 to 20 (30/15=2). I also confirm that casualties are not modified by the other side's stat or roll, except indirectly in that if they kill your soldiers, dead soldiers can't hurt them.Im by far not done yet, however ive got some interesting finds:
- The attacker only uses the attack stat, the defender only the defence, at least for the first round of combat (5 days). Did not test for switching yet.
- Inflicted casualties by the attacker are not modified by the defenders defence stat and dice roll and vice versa. I did not test for the defenders attack stat yet (probably unused too). Its about absolute dice rolls, not the gap.
- Generals/Hills/Rivers are all treated the same and applied directly to the dice rolls. Having no general (-2) and a 9 gives the same results as rolling a 7 without modifiers. I did not test general specific attack/defence differences yet (e.g. +0 attack and +1 defence), propably only the matching value is used.
- Effective rolls (= with modifiers) are capped at -2. Did not look into a upper cap yet, probably at 11.
- Upping the stats 4 fold gives approx 2 times the damage. Im not entirely sure here yet, it holds for a jump from 5 to 20, however an approximation based on this does not hold for 100.
- There seems to be a jump in effective roll effectiveness, ranges are -2 to 3, 4 to 5, 6 to 7+ (did not test above 7 yet).
Its a lot more complicated than i imagined, this might take some more time...
Oh my...thanks for that! Saved me a lot of grey hair. Have to leave in like 2 minutes, however looking over the numbers gives us this:The old formula tossed around for damage includes a 10+Unit stat, which sits perfectly with the ~40% gain in damage I saw going from 5 to 11 (21/15=1.4), and you saw going from 5 to 20 (30/15=2).