Colony rush or not?

[Drakonn]

I've been having the problem in my games of if i don't get more than 5 colonies by the twenty or thirty year mark and keep expanding I start to fall behind the other empires. Typically, falling behind means gap between the Fleet Cap of the AI and my own is much larger.They also have a nasty habit of building at least lvl 2 or 3 (1.4k) starports on every planet. Which, I understand because those are essential to stopping early game fleet rushes and I generally enjoy they can do such a thing.

Once I start to come into contact with other empires colonies ( Normal difficulty, Medium Galaxy 600 stars, for the sake of my old computer, 18-20 AI with 100% on the planet slider) gets scarce pretty quickly. So, without room to grow and no fleet to enforce an expansion the game sort of devolves into waiting until someone declares war on each other and a big brawl (considering the frequency of defensive pacts and such) ensues that I can take advantage of. I'm just not sure of how to counteract this if the AI gets 14 Destroyers and 45 corvettes compared to my 8 and 36 (and I'm almost positive the AI is not afraid to abuse the fleet cap at this difficulty if it has the economy). Cruisers aren't really the solution to that either as I've tried and the numbers of the AI will still make up the difference. I've tried.

I'm enjoy playing a Fanatic Militarist Xenophobe Despotic Empire (so friends are scarce or will be rivals if they're like me eventually) and prefer to build up colonies (getting tier 2 mining and power plants) before expansion pushes because I can't afford otherwise. Not to mention the tech cost increase with each colony and that my energy output can't sustain the maintenance of such starports AND a fleet of decent size. That or minerals disappear quicker than i can replace or afford to build up either of those to rival AI.

It seems to me that colony rushing (regardless of Tech cost increases) seems to be the way to go and if you get stuck this early you're just playing a waiting game until someone pounces on you. Does anyone have any tips that could help with this?

Granted, it could be my galaxy settings making it crowded and sparse as this used to be less of an issue back before the planetary slider was introduced (which i know the "old" planet settings is 200-250%). Though I can also see the issue maybe still persisting even adjusted.

 

[happyscrub]

I use to rush, but after understanding the game better, rushing ain't all what it's cracked up to be.... especially if you plan to fight .

Colonizing a planet is a big investment. 350 minerals + atleast 1000 energy + years until you get new pop to actually start producing anything. On top of that, you then have to defend it too. And the A.I. loves to attack new, defenseless planet if they don't like you. And with the buff to stations, expanding slow gives you better protection.

Frontier outpost are better if you are rushing because the return investment on them is much faster. But if you see a planet that has a lot of resources around it then colonizing rush can be worth it better.

If you really want to rush with a military playstyle, rush taking over planets, not colonizing your own. You let your enemies do all that investment work for you and then you take all the rewards minus a few angry pops.

 

[Lord Dakier]

Recently picked Stellaris up myself and the one thing I can't wrap my head around is how are you supposed to build that impressive navy to fight with if you're unable to increase your naval capacity by building ports? It was only through a string of alliances that I was able to defeat a single-opponent who had 4 planets to my one.

 

[Drakonn]

If you really want to rush with a military playstyle, rush taking over planets, not colonizing your own. You let your enemies do all that investment work for you and then you take all the rewards minus a few angry pops.

Oh, it's not that I want to rush militarily (and starbase strength early on kind of makes this moot anyways). I enjoy slow and methodically building up my empire. That said NOT rushing results in massive AI fleets I can't compete against with economies that somehow manage to support the amount of new planets and all the starbases they build above them. (though I've also seen 3 planet empires who can break the fleet cap and keep me on my toes because why not).

Recently picked Stellaris up myself and the one thing I can't wrap my head around is how are you supposed to build that impressive navy to fight with if you're unable to increase your naval capacity by building ports? It was only through a string of alliances that I was able to defeat a single-opponent who had 4 planets to my one.

More planets=more ports for your fleet so yea it does seem more colonies (at least early on and even midgame) can result in some prickly situations. I know the devs have said they're looking into making more ways for tall empires to have a better shot than wide so here's hoping with the next update.

 

[Derp]

If you're not rushing through conquest then you should be colonizing as fast as you can afford to without letting your military fall so far behind that you become a target.

 

[Lord Striker]

I personally engage in the colony rush tactic, but with that being said I can think of a few strats for playing tall and not wide early game.

1) Being a xenophobe is not a good idea. If you don't expand, your fleet will never be as large as the enemy due to your smaller population, and as defenses are mostly underpowered unless you get creative, war is not in your best interest unless you have allies. Which being a xenophobe does not help you with. I know that you lose border size, but the diplomatic penalty just isn't worth it imo. Every game I have played, the AI that are xenophobes (especially fanatics) are always the first to go. Why? Because nobody likes them.

2) When you do expand, always choose the biggest planet possible. If you're not going to be colonizing very much, you need to be able to make up for that with good planets. It's important to secure these early on within your borders so that they don't get snatched up. Maybe rapid breeders would allow you to make up for the lost time.

3) Frontier outposts, frontier outposts, frontier outposts. They may not give you the fleet cap you need, but they will give you the resources you need if they're well-placed.

4) Focus heavily on tech. One advantage to a small empire is that you get a lower science penalty than sprawling empires. If you can get a technological edge over your opponents early on, and exploit this window to attack quickly, with a small and rapidly achievable war goal, this could be a viable way to expand your territory once there's no room to expand. Just pick a single planet for conquest, rush your fleet in there, land your troops, and voila. Once it's done, the war will very quickly be over.

This, of course, is all theory, and I've never actually tried this as I like to expand rapidly, but it might be some good advice.

 

[maxirage]

There is only a single good strategy in Stellaris:

1) Spam colonies + conquer primitives to grab as much territory as possible.
2) Once everything is taken, spam navy and start conquering planets instead.

Early war is nearly impossible, and even when it's doable it's never worth it. War is only profitable when you're vastly stronger than your opponent and can wield twice his naval power. The only way you'll achieve that is by REXing.

 

[The Founder]

Early game military rushes is strongly discouraged now. They were a pretty huge issue in MP pre 1.4.
Corvettes are terrible agaisnt ports. You need 30 units to even have a chance against a single 1k Spaceport (with easily 50% losses). It get's worse with Kinetic weapons and higher tiers. The large energy guns on a Destroyer and maybe conventional torps can effectively fight the spaceports. But that usually means the fleet will not be as good against the enemy fleet.

I usually "colony rush" to get my core limit filled. I hand excess off to sectors.
The first and next few conquests will propably need outside help either way. Try to find someone that also has a grudge and invite them to the war. Use Rivalries sparringly. While they do give influence, they also tend to force the AI into defense pacts against you.

 

[Drakonn]

If you're not rushing through conquest then you should be colonizing as fast as you can afford to without letting your military fall so far behind that you become a target.

I half succeed in this as I managed to have 4 planets (1 even with an admin center; upped planets to 250% too) and a decent fleet. Only managed that many planets because my leader knocked the colony ship price down to 250 minerals. However, I didn't get to build my starports yet and an AI came barrelling in with 17 corvettes. Only had 10 with Blue lasers myself. Also a problem because I started with lasers and he has Shields, Kinetics, and missiles.

It also take 600 minerals to properly defend a system. 500 for the port (not counting level ups) including Solar panels to offset maintenance plus at least 100 for a defence station to pull them into the station.

Granted, I somehow found myself surrounded by 3 Hegemonic Imperialists (set to distributed start, no advanced). Also had closed borders with the AI who came after me (he closed with me and started throwing science ships into my area. I've noticed you get a rather harsh diplomatic penalty if you do this and the AI can do this at will with virtually no repercussions aside from mild Player ire.

1) Being a xenophobe is not a good idea.

True, I've noticed but i prefer for fun/RP rather than winning builds on species. Though yes, I still like to have a chance at winning.

2 and 3 are dependent on having the space and planets to do either. Four only gets you so far as the numbers of the AI can still make the difference and I've never seen an early enough tech lead to counteract a usual 1.6k station they'll have in addition to their fleet.

 

[Drakonn]

Early game military rushes is strongly discouraged now.

For which I applaud as I enjoy stations having a shot at stopping these early rushes. My only complaint is that it seems if you don't manage to *carefully* (see previous post) colony rush you'll just end up on the bottom of the food chain with no way out. Might just need more practice on my end as I'm used to the old GalCiv 2 way of doing things (very colony rush oriented).

 

[Qilue]

One thing about the buffed starport - the asteroid event is only an issue for primitives now since the starport can usually handle some puny rock on their own.

 

[LordMagus]

I spam colonies as much as I can afford, limited by the amount of habitable worlds that would suit me and their tile size, my military versus neighbours, and tech. Spamming lots of colonies puts you behind tech wise sure, but in the long run you get enough minerals, energy and research buildings to catch up and afford a bigger fleet. Of course, you can't get the long term results if you don't have the fleet power to survive until the colonies pay off.

 

[Derp]

I half succeed in this as I managed to have 4 planets (1 even with an admin center; upped planets to 250% too) and a decent fleet. Only managed that many planets because my leader knocked the colony ship price down to 250 minerals. However, I didn't get to build my starports yet and an AI came barrelling in with 17 corvettes. Only had 10 with Blue lasers myself. Also a problem because I started with lasers and he has Shields, Kinetics, and missiles.

You just need to build more ships. Ideally nobody will ever declare war on you due to your might; on normal difficulty with no advanced empires, it's not hard to get there at all.

It also take 600 minerals to properly defend a system. 500 for the port (not counting level ups) including Solar panels to offset maintenance plus at least 100 for a defence station to pull them into the station.

Don't worry about port levels right away, or even ports. You don't need to defend every system; build ports if you need more fleet cap or production throughput. Solar panels are nice, but as always, only build them if you don't need more ships.

Defense stations... are a waste of minerals. Build more ships instead.

 

[Drakonn]

Good to know about the Starport and asteroid event thanks.

You just need to build more ships. Ideally nobody will ever declare war on you due to your might; on normal difficulty with no advanced empires, it's not hard to get there at all.


Don't worry about port levels right away, or even ports. You don't need to defend every system; build ports if you need more fleet cap or production throughput. Solar panels are nice, but as always, only build them if you don't need more ships.

Defense stations... are a waste of minerals. Build more ships instead.

I'll give the ship way a shot as I've usually neglected that in order to build my worlds up.

Ports were typically such a good deterrent against aggressors I made them default but I can see how building ships could be good if the AI will stay because of it. The solar panels are ones I grab because I'm usually energy starved. Definitely agree with defense stations but being able to yank an early game fleet right into a port is a good way to annihilate the fleet.

Thanks for the help all. Need more practice here. Not used to grand strategy games thinking and how such seemingly little actions can have a big result down the line.

 

[Dr. B]

For a small, careful Xenophobe techno-empire, terraforming is your friend.

Secure future colonies with outposts, aim for the technology and terraform as soon as you are able to. Then settle with the master race to achieve purity.

Much better than conquering filthy aliens through expensive wars, with all the diplomatic penalties and filth involved.

And you can still have defensive "allies" by having common rivals. It doesnt mean you have to actually spend time with the lesser beings *shudder*.

 

[Voidlord]

I'm enjoy playing a Fanatic Militarist Xenophobe Despotic Empire (so friends are scarce or will be rivals if they're like me eventually) and prefer to build up colonies (getting tier 2 mining and power plants) before expansion pushes because I can't afford otherwise. Not to mention the tech cost increase with each colony and that my energy output can't sustain the maintenance of such starports AND a fleet of decent size. That or minerals disappear quicker than i can replace or afford to build up either of those to rival AI.

You shouldn't get your buildings to level 2 (by which I presume Mining Network II and the like?). You will be using up valuable Minerals and Time which in the early game you have very little. I typically get 4 basic buildings (Basic Hydroponic Farm or Frontier Clinic, Basic Power Plant and Basic Mining Network) the save up for a colonyship and repeat.
Before I build my first Colonyship I will save up 791 Minerals or so, enough for a Colonyship and 7 Corvettes, to deal with pirates once I start building outside my star system, which by this point will have any deposits being exploited, and a fairly developed homeworld.

As it has been stated you need to expand your borders as FAST as possible, so if you draw Galactic Ambitions, choose it, even though it will be quite expensive, and if you get Manifest Destiny Rare Tech, pick that. Borders are everything really.
An evil strategy is to colonise a system within an empire you Know EXISTS but haven't made contact with, especially if the system is valuable like a system with 3 inhabitable worlds, even if only one is suitable for you species

 

[Endless Rain]

Early game military rushes is strongly discouraged now. They were a pretty huge issue in MP pre 1.4.
Corvettes are terrible agaisnt ports. You need 30 units to even have a chance against a single 1k Spaceport (with easily 50% losses). It get's worse with Kinetic weapons and higher tiers. The large energy guns on a Destroyer and maybe conventional torps can effectively fight the spaceports. But that usually means the fleet will not be as good against the enemy fleet.

Early game rushes can be viable if your opponent has worlds that haven't built ports yet. You can quickly occupy all of their planets without spaceports, and use the warscore from occupying them to annex their homeworld, which will cripple almost any early game empire.

 

[Drakonn]

You shouldn't get your buildings to level 2 (by which I presume Mining Network II and the like?). You will be using up valuable Minerals and Time which in the early game you have very little. I typically get 4 basic buildings (Basic Hydroponic Farm or Frontier Clinic, Basic Power Plant and Basic Mining Network) the save up for a colonyship and repeat.

Might be my problem. Used to not do that and it was good, but I started to run into energy problems and mineral stations locations were sparse. I'll see if changing when I go to tier 2 helps any. Thanks.

 

[devfrost44]

Use strategic colonization and frontier outpost to lock in territory. For example, you see three habitable planet in a region. You calculate that if you put a frontier outpost or colonize one of them, all three will fall into your territory. Do it. Or if you see that colonizing one planet in the far end will cut off access of an Empire to other habitable planet (that hopefully your border can expand to naturally. Note: Borders naturally gravitated to each other, so gaps in border usually closed in a few years). The goals of this strategy is not to colonize all the planet as soon as possible but rather to put as many habitable planets into your borders. Once they are in your borders, they can't be colonized by other Empire. So now you can take your sweet time and colonize them whenever you want. This way, even if your border doesn't grow in the midgame, your planets count and pop does.

 

[Voidlord]

Might be my problem. Used to not do that and it was good, but I started to run into energy problems and mineral stations locations were sparse. I'll see if changing when I go to tier 2 helps any. Thanks.

I understand that, but going into Negative EC is not a bad thing straight away, especially if you have a reserve.
Setting up your colonies as fast as you can will guarantee locations with EC. When you build new stations focus on the EC sites as well. Remember the minimum EC site is always +2, and it would be self sufficient, so you won't get +1, but +2, so it's good for 2 stations.