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unmerged(9404)

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Originally posted by DarthMaur
[*]problem: Too stable colonial empires. Almost no colonies change hands in wars.
Solutions:

-Make colonists in America/Siberia/Cape/Australia(plus few small islands like St Helena, etc) change culture and religion every time, even above 700 population
enhancement:rework populations of native states there and provincial natives themselves.

-Decrease BB cost of acquiring colonies to 0.25-0.5 in both offensive and defensive wars.
same objections as stated before. How is the game able to know the difference between the areas. Why not include indonesia, India, whole (colonizable) Africa?

[*]problem:Too early colonization.
Solutions:
1)Make colonists available when country either has shipyard or is frontier country. Move Shipyard tech requirement up to naval tech 18-26. Delete English shipyard from Anglia COT or move it to some future event.
-problem with trading posts. possible fixes include:
making TP uses merchants not colonists.
instead of colonists beign available, colonization attempt succes is decreased to 1% if country don't have shipyard or is not frontier country.

2)Placing colonists requires infra 4-5
-problem-no early colonization at all, even Spanish/Portuguese.

3)Introduce big penalty to certain areas/climates which decreases with time, so effectively areas become available for colonization (not including TP) in sequence-first Carraibean, and so on.

4)decrease the amount of population added to colony by 50-75% in XVI, by 25-50% in XVII centuries.

5)decrease the number of colonists in early centuries. Either by percentage or constant numbers (like -75% in XVI century, or -3 in XVI century)
No real good solution as it will also hamper the early colonizers Portugal and Spain.

[*]problem:colonies are too profitable too early.
Solution:
Instead of quick increase in production/trade/tax capacity of colony (reaching half of max at 600 pop)

Population/Trade&Production values.
100 = 1/6
700 = 2/6
1500 = 3/6
2800 = 4/6
4000 = 5/6
5000 = 6/6

Tax income modified by -50% prior to colony city having 5000 population.
good idea

[*]problem:country size/population don't affect how much can it colonize.
Solutions:

1)modify number of available colonists by sum of manpower of all owned provinces you have landlink to.

2)modify number of available colonists by countrysize.
problem-colonists number is affected by colonies, too.

3)modify number of available colonists by manpower.
problem-will be affected by quality slider. Also, non-state culture provinces will contribute, too, which can either be good or bad.

general problems-TP shouldn't be affected. Same fix as above, making TP with merchants not colonists.

Isn't this already factored in with the cost of sending a colonist. not every nation can afford to send 4 colonists a year and keep up on all other stuff (tech investment, war etc)
 

unmerged(2833)

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Re: Re: Re: Colonization.

Originally posted by boehm
So u believe that eg. France would have no problem changing the culture of all of Germany and Iberia into french be no problem...something to be done in say 10 years time?! ;)
As i said, it should only work in few areas, and only under 5000 population. There will be no such problem.
 

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Re: Re: Re: Colonization.

Originally posted by boehm
So u believe that eg. France would have no problem changing the culture of all of Germany and Iberia into french be no problem...something to be done in say 10 years time?! ;)

*cough*
You can only send colonists to provinces with less than 5,000 population... sorry for not reminding you of that.;)
 

unmerged(5822)

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Originally posted by Zander
You can't send colonists to provinces above 5000 population.
Though that does still leave the issue of Ireland...

"Aye, thass a problem..."
 

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Grandpa Maur
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Originally posted by Ironfoundersson

same objections as stated before. How is the game able to know the difference between the areas. Why not include indonesia, India, whole (colonizable) Africa?


No real good solution as it will also hamper the early colonizers Portugal and Spain.


good idea



Isn't this already factored in with the cost of sending a colonist. not every nation can afford to send 4 colonists a year and keep up on all other stuff (tech investment, war etc)
Areas are already implemented in the game-check AI files-ai has areas listed which it colonizes first.

For hampering of Portugal/Spain:
1)It won't hamper them, as they get shipyards by event.
2)true, and its the reason i don't like it either.
3)will only hamper ahistorical iberian colonization
4-5)will hamper all countries in early centuries, which indeed mainly means spain/portugal, BUT-its common misconception they colonized a lot in early centuries. In fact, European colonization was nowhere near beign large-only about 100'000 people left for new world in XVI century (including 10'000 Portuguese)
Check 1617 scenario. Most of America is low-level colonies and TPs still.

And for countrysize modyfing number of colonists-it is mainly aimed at low-population rich nations, Portugal and Holland. They had too small population to really colonize a lot, and it isn't reflected in game. Still, it would require changing trading posts to something else than colonists.
 

M@ni@c

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2.)Make it possible to change the culture until a population level of 5000 inhabitans. Will make for much more competition and allow other powers to attack the Portugese/Spanish empire lateron.

I kinda like the idea proposed earlier of changing both culture & religion by sending a missionary to a non-European minus-5000-population colony. :) In fact, I already use that rule in my own games by editing the save file. :cool:

4.) Make Mercantilism and option through increasing production when choosing it as less competition strengthened the industry. Makes free trade less a no-brainer.

Great idea! Though I think there should be a similar advantage for going free trade. How about +10% Production when going full Mercantilist, and +5% Trade (only 5 since players usually gain more money from trade than production; doubling the production bonus should level an inbalance between the slider options) for going full Free Trade. Or perhaps double it to +20% production and +10% trade.

To make the Naval-Land slider balanced again, I would then suggest completely removing the 10% Trade bonus and malus for Naval/Land.
To add a new feature as replacement I would rework this rule added in one of the betas:
- The income penalty on Overseas provinces are now modified by the land/naval slider from 5-15% for areas with ports.
How about this:
If you go fully Naval, you get an income bonus of 10% or 20% for ALL coastal provinces (provinces with a port).
And the opposite for full Land: 10% or 20% income bonus for all non-coastal provinces.
This would balance the slider again I think. It would be beneficial for countries like England, the Netherlands, Denmark and Portugal to go Naval, while for continental countries like France, Russia and Poland it would be logical to be a land power. Now I think everyone goes Naval no matter what.
 
M

Mowers

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The Mowers Summary.

Maur has brought together some interesting thoughts which seem to have been improperly overlooked

I will follow his suggested listings.


Too stable Colonial empires

It needs to be possible to change culture of a province if its below say 1000. Perhaps there should be a reduced chance to colonise when the colony is a different culture? Say 40%? But once you have succeeded then the culture changes and the normal 100 population is added.


Too Early Colonisation (the big one)

I am strongly in favour of not being able to send colonists unless you have a shipyard or you are a frontier nation. (You could allow colonists without a shipyard but say that you can only have a maximum of 4 colonies).

Its draconian but its going to keep happening until we get harsh. This would have a side effect of making the carribbean islands extremely desirable, the conflict over these islands would finally be realistic.

Shipyards would have to be allowed at a differing naval tech level though. Its currently 11 (1516) and could be increased to 15 (1550) - 18 (1600). I would suggest L16. The AI would have to know to build shipyards.

I think that TP’s ought to be displacable, ie, one can remove an existing TP with another TP but at a greatly reduced chance depending on the current TP level.

There is an option that embargo’s ought to be allowed at any trade tech level and that we could replace that ‘gain’ with the ability to send colonists.


Colonies are too profitable

I think that they ought to be profitable but other methods will decrease their worth.


Country size population doesn’t effect number of colonists.

I don’t think this is a problem. Large numbers of colonists to the New World went to colonies of other countries depending on which was most attractive. The sliders determine this already very nicely.
 
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Originally posted by Mowers
The Mowers Summary.

1000 seems a number which is too small to me but well.
5000 should be the same zenit as 700 is now I think.

Also the idea fur cultural change was my suggestion.:)
 

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I think that needing shipyards for current exploration is a bit extreme at current prices. This may cause problems for several nations who historically colonised, particularly France, and to a lesser extent Sweden and Denmark. I rarely see the ai build shipyards, though it does definitely happen later in game for the bigger Europeans. Perhaps it would be OK though if shipyard costs were reduced and the first shipyard was made higher priority for the ai.

Can someone post a summary of when the events that give shipyards happen so that we can compare them to historic colonisation?
 
M

Mowers

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The solution to allow those without a shipyard could be that you can send colonists but you only get 30 instead of 100 population at a time and you must be trade level 4 to be able to do so.

PS thus making embargoes allowed at all trade levels, why you need to be trade level 4 baffles me

Countries that can get an event lead Shipyard

UK
Spain
Portugal
Venice (but no explorers)
Ottomans (but no explorers)
Russia (?) ( but no naval explorers )
Holland
Sweden

France (no shipyard but gets explorers)
 
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not being able to send colonists unless you have a shipyard or you are a frontier nation

I think this should be rephrased, or else we'll see United States of New Russia become a rather popular alternative...

I think it should be "unless you have a shipyard or a land connection with the province in question".

I also think that colonization of provinces with a land connection (read: Russia in Siberia) should not require any colonists at all; the current tradepost penalty, coupled with the fairly big colony costs, would serve as a much better limitation on Russian expansion. We would also have a situation where reasonable dp mechanics don't hurt or boost Russian colonization in silly ways; overseas colonization is very different from colonizing your backyard, after all... (Russia should not benefit from having a shipyard, nor should it suffer for being very land-oriented, since their naval power had absolutely nothing to do with their ability to expand into Siberia).

I think it is about time that land-oriented and sea-oriented colonization were separated; mixing them only creates a mess.
 

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Originally posted by Mowers
The solution to allow those without a shipyard could be that you can send colonists but you only get 30 instead of 100 population at a time and you must be trade level 4 to be able to do so.

PS thus making embargoes allowed at all trade levels, why you need to be trade level 4 baffles me

Countries that can get an event lead Shipyard

UK
Spain
Portugal
Venice (but no explorers)
Ottomans (but no explorers)
Russia (?) ( but no naval explorers )
Holland


France (no shipyard but gets explorers)
Sweden (no shipyard but gets explorers)


Sweden gets a shipyard if they want to.
 

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Originally posted by TheArchduke
1000 seems a number which is too small to me but well.
5000 should be the same zenit as 700 is now I think.

Also the idea fur cultural change was my suggestion.:)

if would have to pick some figure I guess 5000 is a good one, too small like 1000 is same as 700 basically.
 

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Originally posted by Mowers
The solution to allow those without a shipyard could be that you can send colonists but you only get 30 instead of 100 population at a time and you must be trade level 4 to be able to do so.

Seems reasonable, but why not a naval tech level instead of (or in addition to) the trade requirement?
 
M

Mowers

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Originally posted by RedPhoenix
if would have to pick some figure I guess 5000 is a good one, too small like 1000 is same as 700 basically.

5000 is massive and causes significant problems for Ireland for example.

I would suggest that if a population gets to around 1500 then it ought to be imposible to change the culture.

Alternatively there could be a culminative reduction, like so.

For every multiple of 100 head of population there is a reduction in % chance in colonising a province. This would be 4%.

So if the success rate was normally 60% and it was 800 population then you would have a 28% chance of success.

Once a population reaches 1500 then the culture can no longer change but colonists may be added without a reduction bonus.

The cost to add colonists to a province which is not your culture would be multiplied by a factor of 3.
 
M

Mowers

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Originally posted by Onslaught
Seems reasonable, but why not a naval tech level instead of (or in addition to) the trade requirement?

because I think that trade tech is under utilised. But I am easy either way, I just think a change along those lines would improve the game.
 

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Originally posted by Onslaught
I think this should be rephrased, or else we'll see United States of New Russia become a rather popular alternative...

I think it should be "unless you have a shipyard or a land connection with the province in question".
But if you have a land connection with an uncolonised province, then you are a frontier nation.
 
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