Colonisation way too fast ?

[Dievs]

It seems that in 1.02 colonisation is happening way too easily.
It is now end of year 1840, and there are absolutely no free coastal provinces anywhere in the world - and many of african inland provinces are being colonised right now.

Russia especially is going crasy with colonisation - they have made large progress in Canada, they own more than half of the pacific islands and new zealand, and have a large colony in western africa !

 

[unmerged(8351)]

yes it is too fast...there are fixes...in my mod it is a much more historic pace although still to fast

In my prussia game for example it is 1855 and only a few colonies have been claimed netherlands got borneo

uk got 3 colonies in africa and all of australia...besides that there are only about 15 other claims out there and about 50% of the african coast is still open

 

[Windoze]

I have some ideas about how to solve the colonization progress...

Make the colonization cost five times more from the begining and then lower the cost for every "colonization tech" you got. This way colonization will be very expensive in the begining and then slowly droping.

But there is some problems with this...
Will tha AI coup with increased costs for colonization?
Where should the inventions be added? (To culture techs?)

 

[unmerged(8351)]

I have some ideas about how to solve the colonization progress...

Make the colonization cost five times more from the begining and then lower the cost for every "colonization tech" you got. This way colonization will be very expensive in the begining and then slowly droping.

But there is some problems with this...
Will tha AI coup with increased costs for colonization?
Where should the inventions be added? (To culture techs?)

i like your ideas windoze

 

[unmerged(5871)]

In version 1.02 you can't get enough money or resourse for a long time and colinisation star's too early, so you can't get anything.

 

[unmerged(23618)]

has anyone else noticed the ai building lots of trade posts and missions without building anything else? In my France game at least half of africa is 'colonized' but not claimed because no one controls the whole colony and no one has the prerequisite buildings to claim them.

 

[unmerged(7537)]

has anyone else noticed the ai building lots of trade posts and missions without building anything else? In my France game at least half of africa is 'colonized' but not claimed because no one controls the whole colony and no one has the prerequisite buildings to claim them.

A lot. In 1.01 France covered the whole continent with missions and trade posts, in 1.02 Russia and the Ottomans (?!) do the same.
I think it's because basically missions and trade posts are the cheapest buildings and do not require lots of industrial ressources. You only need lumber, cement and some cash (and some glass for missions I think) to get going. And the AI surely uses this to its advantage.

 

[OHgamer]

Raising the cost substantially would be a big help. Something that would also be of use would be to keep the Russian and Dutch AI busy by having them start from lower starting points in the empires they do develop. For the Dutch, the problem is that they are starting out with way too much direct control over Indonesia than what they really had in 1835. While the Dutch did have effective control over Java and southern Sumatra by 1835 in most of the rest of the archipelago Dutch rule was quite limited in the style of trade posts. I think we need to make more of Indonesia unclaimed (and make the Dutch ai focus on claiming what is still needs to claim for full control) - especially in Sulawesi/Celebes and the Moluccas, much of which did not come under effective Dutch control until after 1900 (see MC Ricklefs A History Of Modern Indonesia Since c.1300 (Stanford U Press:1993) chapter 12 for the history of Dutch expansion outside Java in the 19th Century). As for Russia, while there was no other European power claiming the interior of Siberia the Russians did not effectively control the entire region and much of the 19th Century was spent by the Russians exploring the interior regions (and getting the local populations - Yakut, Chukchi etc) to sign "protection agreements". Much of the interior of Siberia should, I think, be made unclaimed with Russia's AI focusing on claiming that first before going outside to claim colonies. If we give the Dutch and Russians something to do to complete their domain in Indonesia perhaps it will slow the juggernaut so all of Africa doesn't get claimed by the two by 1850. :wacko:

 

[unmerged(8351)]

damn another good idea this thread is being very poductive today

 

[OHgamer]

Actually perhaps besides raising the cost, could also require some more inputs in order to build certain claim buildings :

For Missions, glass (for the windows) and paper (missions were centers for introducing Western education in colonial areas). Maybe require 2-3 of each product in addition to the lumber & cement

For Coaling Stations, add 2 Clipper Convoys to the cost

For Trade Post, add 2-3 Fabric (the most important trade good of the 19th C)

For Fort, lower explosives to say 5 and add 2-3 ammunition or artillery and maybe small arms as well.

That should slow down the process quite considerably.

 

[unmerged(16419)]

Actually perhaps besides raising the cost, could also require some more inputs in order to build certain claim buildings :

For Missions, glass (for the windows) and paper (missions were centers for introducing Western education in colonial areas). Maybe require 2-3 of each product in addition to the lumber & cement

For Coaling Stations, add 2 Clipper Convoys to the cost

For Trade Post, add 2-3 Fabric (the most important trade good of the 19th C)

For Fort, lower explosives to say 5 and add 2-3 ammunition or artillery and maybe small arms as well.

That should slow down the process quite considerably.

That's very close to what I have done, and it works great!!

This is what I have added to the base "price:"

Missions: 10 glass and 10 paper
Trading post: 10 fabric and 20 whiskey (Very important trade good,actually)
Coaling station: 5 clipper_convoy. After 1860 or so one could change it to steamers.
Fort: 10 small_arms and 10 manpower.

I also have added 50 grain,fruit,fish,cattle,and wool to each simply because it "feels better" to have to think about some sort of supplies for your outposts rather than just plunking down building materials. This may have a slight impact on demand for these items, but mostly I just want to have to think more in terms of real logistics.

This is what I get: No wierd russian, or ottoman colonies in polynesia and africa takes longer to colonize etc. The british have a slight advantage at first because they produce many of these things early..... but they don't dominate too much. I'm not sure if the human british player could overly exploit this, because I never play UK. My hunch is it still would be harder than it is with vanilla 1.02

 

[Windoze]

Maybe some moderator should move this thread to the improvement forum... There is alot of good ideas here..

 

[OHgamer]

More ideas on colonization....

Another factor that affects speed of colonization is the number of different colonies a nation's AI is allowed to develop at any one time. This is the size = # line of the colony = { section of the AI. So if a nation has colony = 2, it can at most start construction of colonial claim buildings in 2 colonies simultaneously and move on to the next colony once all provinces within a colony have claim buildings started. Right now, Britain can colonize up to 6 (yes six!) regions simultaneously, with the French allowed 2 and other nations 1. You'd think this would give the British AI an advantage but in reality it has all that empty space in Canada, Australia and New Zealand to claim first, thus if the Dutch, Russian or Ottoman AI have all their primary colonial areas already filled they can move into other areas (Russians in the Congo, Dutch in Somalia, Ottomans in Nigeria and the like). The solution therefore is I think to give the Ottoman, Dutch and Russian AIs more areas in their primary regions of interest to complete colonization first (Russian in Northern Siberia, Dutch in parts of Indonesia, Ottomans should be able to move into Libya with the TRI state either reduced or eliminated (see Ottoman VIP thread for that discussion) to keep them occupied while the English focus on Canada/Antipodes. Also I think the USA should have its colonial holdings in the Midwest & Great Plains trimmed back - esp in the interior of the Dakotas, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, Nebraska & Kansas as currently the USA can start railroad construction on the plains in the 1830s when in reality it would be 1860s before that could happen (Transcontinental Railroad completed in 1869). Keep the claims in the border areas along Canada and Mexico, but the interior provinces that could not be reached by the British or Mexicans can be left empty for the USA to start the colonization process. This should ensure that the USA doesn't get a jump on Europe in colonization of Africa. I'd also probably cut the British AI colony = # down to 2 or 3 and French down to 1 to slow the rate at which they can complete colonies early on and raise the costs for various claim buildings, adding more resources like paper, fabric, liquor, armaments to the cost to build them (that should keep the French in check early on).

 

[unmerged(23804)]

If we give the Dutch and Russians something to do to complete their domain in Indonesia perhaps it will slow the juggernaut so all of Africa doesn't get claimed by the two by 1850.

I agree. And not only because of this 1.02 problem. I find a bit stupid to race for some Pacific islands and Africa, when in reality enormous parts of several other continents were in the same state. Applies especially to Russia and South America.

 

[OHgamer]

I agree. And not only because of this 1.02 problem. I find a bit stupid to race for some Pacific islands and Africa, when in reality enormous parts of several other continents were in the same state. Applies especially to Russia and South America.

I think Brazil's position in the Amazon Basin would be another place that could use some work, especially as some of those regions were not even visited by non-Amerindian peoples until well into the 20th century. If Argentina has to complete colonization in Patagonia to be able to claim it then it doesn't make sense to have Brazil have direct control of some regions south of the Amazon River either.