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Ilightmaster

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I've done some games since 1.8 and every time i see portugal or spain colonize east russia and moreover russia do nothing about it, no claims and also they dont'y attack khan council either. I think russia progression is good in 1.8 but not colonization, AI is going too far too soon. What do you think about it ?
 

yerm

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The AI does not appear to really have to work with colonial range. They colonize where they want. That seems to be the problem, not Russia itself.
 

-Malovane-

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AI Russia takes varying idea sets. Sometimes it takes expansion right away. Other times it takes religious.

If it takes expansion first, it tends to do much better on the colonizing front. Partially this is because it starts colonizing far earlier, but also because it gets two colonists instead of only the one. The colonization strategy it uses is to fill in pretty much all the provinces on the way eastward. With the number of new provinces, this is simply not possible to do with a single colonist before other powers reach it. The player can reach the Pacific with the single free colonist, but only if they snake their way there (and then fill in everything later).

Other new issues involving the Eastern expansion involve a quite powerful Oirat horde. Given that colonies no longer give the same base tax/manpower that they used to, Russia will often be a little weaker than it used to be while expanding on this front. The Oirat will often take advantage of this, especially if Russia is involved in another war, and take over the colonies. To complicate things further, Perm will often rebel or be released, delaying new settlements even further.

And yeah, the penalty for colonizing arctic provinces should be more or less on par with tropical, to deter colonizers. Or, preferably, the penalty switched between the two. As it stands, all the powers go absolutely crazy for Siberia.

It gets even worse when a player from a horde/native tribe has colonized the region and found abundant gold deposits. In a recent game as the Kamchadals, a Siberian tribe that starts out in Kamchatka, I was in constant wars with Western powers - and even some American colonies. At one point I was involved in 7 wars simultaneously, and survived only due to massive attrition and fortifications. Fun play, but it makes me wonder if the AI doesn't prioritize Siberia solely because it knows there's gold there.
 

Panzerschiffe

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The AI is scripted to avoid tropical areas like the plague and prioritize those that aren't which results in strange behviour like Spanish Siberia, Spanish Canada, and the like.

The AI has extended colonial range, has lowered native attacks, lowered terrain modifier penalties...which explains why they can plop colonies without every losing hold of them.
 

oblio-

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The AI is scripted to avoid tropical areas like the plague and prioritize those that aren't which results in strange behviour like Spanish Siberia, Spanish Canada, and the like.

The AI has extended colonial range, has lowered native attacks, lowered terrain modifier penalties...which explains why they can plop colonies without every losing hold of them.
Honestly, they should just make the Siberian coastline arctic or something and lower the AI's desire to colonize it. Russia will definitely colonize it since it will run out of areas to colonize quickly. Spain, Portugal, France - not so much.
 

Path

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The AI is eager to get started on colonizing in Asia, but sadly most of Asia is tropical. Amusingly, this makes SIberia an easier place to colonize for the Iberians than the Philippines. As to why they're doing that while ignoring free land in the Americas, well...
 

Panzerschiffe

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Honestly, they should just make the Siberian coastline arctic or something and lower the AI's desire to colonize it. Russia will definitely colonize it since it will run out of areas to colonize quickly. Spain, Portugal, France - not so much.

Arctic is actually easier to colonize than jungle.

I'm not sure if they go for arctic or if they avoid those...
 

toroltao

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The problem isn't Russia, it's Portugal and Spain colonizing where they historically didn't.
 

Aries666

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Honestly, they should just make the Siberian coastline arctic or something and lower the AI's desire to colonize it. Russia will definitely colonize it since it will run out of areas to colonize quickly. Spain, Portugal, France - not so much.

All they need is culture specific reductions for terrain type such as Russian getting a boost for arctic, Kongo getting a boost for tropical etc. However, the main reason you see Portugal/Castile in Siberia is the extended colonial range they get which allows going Cape>Maldives>Taiwan>Siberia (whilst still avoiding tropical provinces) in the space of 30 years.
 

Freudia

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The problem isn't Russia, it's Portugal and Spain colonizing where they historically didn't.

I think the problem isn't so much they're colonizing where they historically didn't, but rather that they're colonizing where they historically didn't before where they historically did. If there's no available land left except for Siberia, by all means I expect the AI to go for it. The AI shouldn't ignore an area for the entire game just because they historically didn't colonize there.
 

Xinkc

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Do you know what's worse than Spain/Castile or Portugal in eastern Siberia? Ming. Ming in eastern Siberia without a land border through the Manchu lands.
 

TheMeInTeam

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I think the problem isn't so much they're colonizing where they historically didn't, but rather that they're colonizing where they historically didn't before where they historically did. If there's no available land left except for Siberia, by all means I expect the AI to go for it. The AI shouldn't ignore an area for the entire game just because they historically didn't colonize there.

It's not even a matter of history. Two questions:

1. What is the value of a distant overseas Siberian province in terms of tax and production?

2. How does Spain, Portugal, France, or England collect trade from the Girin node in a typical game?

The answers to these questions should make it overwhelmingly obvious as to why Iberian Siberia is a problem, because we see Iberian Siberia before we see more land settled in the new world, and before we see a really heavy presence in Indonesia.

Wiz once said that the AI should colonize based on what's useful to it, not history. Okay then, which human player in Western Europe attempting to optimize colonization picks Siberia over Malacca, India, or the New World? How does Siberia defeat these alternative locations on a quantitative basis?

It doesn't. To me history isn't the reason the green and yellow filth in Siberia is an eyesore. Just as much if not more so, the reason is that such is an active advertisement that the AI colonial logic is still flawed. This is the same reason seeing Castile and Portugal in Canada is head-scratching. How are they going to collect that exactly? At least in that case they can tariff it, but it's still strictly inferior to alternative CN locations (especially temperate ones they can steer home), and yet I've seen them colonize it pretty early.
 

SignedName

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You know what else is annoying? Filipino Sulu doesn't prioritize colonizing Filipino provinces- because they're jungles! Of all nations that ought to try colonizing the Philippines, even the Sulu won't attempt it!
 

WiseGreen

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Or (if it's doable) program the AI to only colonize provinces in a given trade node if it already has at least one province, or one subject's province, on an immediately downstream node.

AI should still reach India and Southeast Asia just fine, as it usually does that through missions of conquest.