Colonies: Worth the Effort?

[Garothian]

I've been wondering, for awhile now, how different colonization will be from EUIII. In EUIII, colonies never seemed to really be worth the effort and gold required to establish them. Their tax efficiency is terrible compared to fully established provinces (and never really reaches a comparable level), they're a money vacuum before 1,000 population, and they're much more difficult to defend early on. Not to mention the valuable National Idea slot(s) taken up by QftNW and CV. I know the National Idea system getting a major overhaul, but otherwise, how are any of the above raised points being addressed in EUIV?

 

[Emperor Marcus]

who knows? not like i can play the game

 

[Assalander]

How would we know? But trade is a possibly huge benefit under the new system, I'd say.

 

[shakeled1]

The value in colonies as I saw it wasn't padding your account, but increasing technology. With high-level trade buildings built across the colonies for efficiency and value technology could skyrocket (also forcelimit rises), while military and tax buildings on the home continent alongside it made your military maintainable and your wallet full. This however, won't apply to the EUIV system, but since trade, production, and basing rights will grant you money now, they may actually be profitable.

 

[Haresus]

If colonization was not worth it, a huge part of the game would be utterly worthless. I don't think Paradox would be that silly.

 

[Garothian]

The value in colonies as I saw it wasn't padding your account, but increasing technology. With high-level trade buildings built across the colonies for efficiency and value technology could skyrocket (also forcelimit rises), while military and tax buildings on the home continent alongside it made your military maintainable and your wallet full. This however, won't apply to the EUIV system, but since trade, production, and basing rights will grant you money now, they may actually be profitable.

The monetary gains of colonies is my main concern. After all, that's the primary reason why people left to explore the world in the first place; money! Finding a western trade route to India to circumvent both the Silk Road and the Ottomans. Finding new and valuable trade goods, such as coffee, to bring back home for a huge profit. Money drove the exploration business. I'm just hoping that the cash aspect of colonization won't be forgotten, and will at least be improved upon from the last game.

 

[Zarine]

The reviewer/dev multiplayer game where colonist Spain (or was it Castille only?) won because of his colonies make me think it's worth it.

 

[SirKulinski]

The reviewer/dev multiplayer game where colonist Spain (or was it Castille only?) won because of his colonies make me think it's worth it.

Yup, even his suggestion was to get colonies going in the small islands above Venezuela (Should give you the idea of the islands I'm indicating, I hope..) because they had very high base tax.

 

[Twiggy888]

For me colonies in EU3 were all about waiting the 50 years for a core and starting a trade centre thats where I found the real money to be. Still it often seemed more efffective to expand in Europe and set the merchants on auto send to far away lands rather than go there with my armies. The new trade nodes look like they have changed that completly making overseas territories nessacery for a strong trade game. Really quite excited about how the new trade mechanics effect the game.

 

[lemonsquid]

Another thing to take into consideration, specifically for European nations now is that with trade steering, other nations such as Oman will be steering your trade away, maybe not AI so much, but a player would and from what I understand could subsequently damage the economy in Europe. Leaving Europe with no choice but to go to the Americas

 

[Heatth]

Another thing to take into consideration, specifically for European nations now is that with trade steering, other nations such as Oman will be steering your trade away, maybe not AI so much, but a player would and from what I understand could subsequently damage the economy in Europe. Leaving Europe with no choice but to go to the Americas

Or leaving them no choice but to go into Asia and compete there directly, like the Portuguese and, later, the Dutch did. One of the things that let me excited with the new trade system is that it gives more incentive for more realistic colonization patterns. I am looking forward to it.

 

[lemonsquid]

Or leaving them no choice but to go into Asia and compete there directly, like the Portuguese and, later, the Dutch did. One of the things that let me excited with the new trade system is that it gives more incentive for more realistic colonization patterns. I am looking forward to it.

yes completely, but dont forget, that you will not instantly know where Oman is and how to get their until discovery of it, which gives Oman and nations of similar caliber to do as much damage as possible before the Europeans show up

 

[Twiggy888]

Another thing to take into consideration, specifically for European nations now is that with trade steering, other nations such as Oman will be steering your trade away, maybe not AI so much, but a player would and from what I understand could subsequently damage the economy in Europe. Leaving Europe with no choice but to go to the Americas

It also give you the option to ruin an enemies economy by cutting off or siphoning away their trade with out going to war. letting you soften them up before a war or keep them down during a truce

 

[unmerged(221372)]

I'm fairly sure the new trade system makes colonies worth it for the trade steering alone.

not to mention interesting gameplay

 

[lemonsquid]

I'm fairly sure the new trade system makes colonies worth it for the trade steering alone.

not to mention interesting gameplay

No doubt in my mind that wars will be waged over trade and all of its wealth

 

[Dafool]

IIRC, aren't colonies excluded from your overextension score? If I'm remembering that right, this means that colonization is probably one of very few ways to gain provinces without internal (and external) repercussions. Something like that can help transform Portugal or the Netherlands into a real power or allow stronger nations like Castille or England to really become dominant. And that isn't even considering the financial benefits that colonization will offer.

 

[Andy_Dandy]

IIRC, aren't colonies excluded from your overextension score? If I'm remembering that right, this means that colonization is probably one of very few ways to gain provinces without internal (and external) repercussions. Something like that can help transform Portugal or the Netherlands into a real power or allow stronger nations like Castille or England to really become dominant. And that isn't even considering the financial benefits that colonization will offer.

That's true. Another thing forgotten in this thread is that in EU3 more provinces meant more costly tech. Now in EU4 even the worst province will help your overall economy even without investments, as long as it isn't infested by rebellions.

 

[XT6Wagon]

EU3, colonies might take a while to pay off, but they do. Course if you are a real jerk and playing a small nation in europe, moving your capital to the Americas is seriously OP. Huge trade, Huge population, Huge ocean to keep your enemies ineffective.

 

[gibbel]

I think colonies will be a cost quite a bit to establish but the long term gain will be quite large. Let's take England's/GB's historical position as an example. Controlling large chunks of the North American continent generates quite a bit of trade. That trade can be largely (an after the seven years war entirely) steered toward London, where you will be able to collect a huge percentage of it because you're the only one who has provinces in that trade zone. You'll need the ships for tariff efficiency anyway because you can use them to steer trade and protect your colonies/mainland.

The profit you make will increase with technology as trade efficency goes up. As a consequence colonies will be extremely profitable post 1700 because the only upkeep you're paying for them will be that of the ships.

Any thing you have to keep in mind when comparing the profitability of colonies in EUIII and EUIV is that the will no longer slow down your tech speed or at least not in all area. Colonies will probably cost a bit of diplo or admin power to establish but effect not be as great as in EUIII where you could easily double the number of provinces by early colonization without gaining a lot of income from the colonies.

 

[murlocmancer]

Colonies were always worth it, but only for some nations clearly. Like England is in a prime spot to take colonies. They are an island and have trouble making a huge continetal empire, so clearly expanding into the new world is the way to go to become more powerful. And like portugal is not i the spot for continetal conquest so going to the colonies is a better idea. The one thing i think is now in is that all places take time ot conquer (Alteast in mesoamerica they had like fort one or something and you had to actually siege it) so there won't be that insta grab colony war thing