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zdlugasz

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The game started as WW2 game, when colonial thing and troops were fading into past very fast, but now we have 1914 scenario and even earlier ones in mods.

Thinking about WW1 and German colonies, especially about war in Tanzania (and number of Belgian troops in Congo), I came to conclusion that current system misrepresents colonial situations entirely, but (IMO) small changes might improve situation considerably
- Germany must support their colonia troops loosing tons of convoys at the risk of lack of supplies - in history German colonist fought almost without support from their mothercountry, especially magical "supplies"
- high resilience of some of such units - in Tanzania Germans were able to last longer than war in Europe, sometimes just evading pursuing enemy
- size of units involved - colonial units usually were much smaller, and in majority included local troops with outdated weapons (even white weapons)


So I would propose to consider adding additional "colonial" unit type (asking for many types would be too much but: white militia, colonial infantry, cavalry, even colonial police (like garrison but with speed 1?)). Proposed units could be characterized by:
- no supply consumption
- much lower maximum strength (like 10 or 20 instead of 100)
- probably very low attack (normal or higher defense?)
- speed higher than corresponding "normal" units
- maybe even possibility to locally recruit up to that limited strength (slowly, in owned provs, without involving mothercountry manpower)
- possibility to "fade" or hide in bush (evade), e.g. if neigbouring "friendly" province is unoccupied or even occupied but without enemy presence, obviously not all the time and at will - however implementation of such would be problematic at least


Maybe such units could not be build, but would be created only by events or would exists from the scenario beginning?
Colonial rebels might use such unit types as well.
 
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Goldblooded

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I disagree, even by WWII; colonies still covered much of the world i.e Britain+France but also other countries like Belgium (as you said) +Australia.

Good idea none the less, and maybe make it somehow that it can only be placed/recruited in colonies and not in the mother country?
 

zdlugasz

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I disagree, even by WWII; colonies still covered much of the world i.e Britain+France but also other countries like Belgium (as you said) +Australia.

Good idea none the less, and maybe make it somehow that it can only be placed/recruited in colonies and not in the mother country?

What I meant that time of colonial wars was mostly over (in the sense of XIX, early XX century). The only WW2 African campaigns worth mentioning were in Northern Africa and were definitively not fought using "colonial = 2nd quality" troops. WW2 war in Asia was not using "colonial" troops (in the WW1 or Viki era sense).
Allies used troops consisting of colonials, but e.g. Indian infantry regiments did not differ much from English ones. They could be used on any war theatre.


Regarding "evasion" maybe they could retreat 2 or 3 times faster?
Edit: and to owned but not controlled prov if there is no enemy there

guerilla-like troops might work on similar principle (e.g. in Eastern Europe)
 
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zdlugasz

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An idea which would probably would be a bitch to implement (especially since AI might not manage properly, however AI deals with locked units, and the principle is similar)

- connect "colonial/militia/garrison" type of units with some area
a) units in their home area obtain speed/attack/defense bonuses (if any)
b) early unit types can not leave their own area (or maybe can only visit neigbouring areas), or there is a flag, which tells whether unit can/cannot leave its own area
 

Asalto

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I'm not sure if devs will go for significant unit changes only to fix this issue, but inside current game system, much could be achieved with more simple solutions already. In this German colonial case, it would probably help if German colonial protectorates would be turned into puppet states (in game terms), making those ''nations'' outdated in military tech (giving them some outdated militia units with colonial names, poorly researched tech tree...). If tags are lacking, existing African revolters could be modified for 1914 scenario. Such ''nations'' would be puppets of Germany and would have flags of respective protectorates: Deutsch-Ostafrika, Deutsch-Südwestafrika, Kamerun and Togoland. Since scenario starts in 1914, it's already clear who is in which bloc and this would simulate German problems with protection of overseas territories (they had to rely on themselves and puppets would simulate this well). Just an idea, not sure if it's of any use, but some brainstroming never hurts. More simple solution would be to simple lock units to some province, but maybe this would be probably too limiting even for smaller-scaled colonial warfare.
 

zdlugasz

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I am not sure as well, still this is place to ask them to consider.

True, that we can limited strength troops right now as well. However colonial puppets IMO presents us with problems as well (aside of inflation of TAGs which personally I do not like). And while it might indeed work fairly well for 1914 scenario, it probably would not for any earlier date.

Problems I see: lack of manpower, IC and resources. Could such colony "mobilize" enough? they probably should have 0 industry so they would need free IC. Then they would need free energy, steel etc just to produce enough supplies for their militia (in theory motherland could give it to them, but it would be nonsense that Germany is sending convoys of coal and steel to Kamerun or Tanzania - it would incure convoy losses and at the end we risk that there wont be supplies for OstAfrican troops anyway). Colonies were supposed to deliver resources to Europe, not vice-versa.

Another issue is that such puppet-colonies are susceptible to annexation. Imagine that Germany has won in Europe but their African colonies are annexed by RPA, Belgium, Japan, Australia, ... Now you have to write peace-settlement events for every possible country in order to give it back.

And regarding "colonial" capitals: Germans did not give damn that their "capital" in Tanzania could have been occupied (in game terms = annexation), they would fight regardless since Tanzania was not their "real" country and they could live and fight using resources acquired from land and from sporadic smuggling.


Edit: and while they could be given free supplies as well, they would still need IC for reinforcements and dissent fighting (maybe even upgrades)
 
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Limith

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Convoys and transports is the likeliest issue in 1914 scenario, everything else is manageable. Iirc, germany already loses all of its convoys attempting to supply Africa in our internal version of DH. We can force territory to be transferred back to GER regardless (type = secedeprovince when = 2) or a generic event can be written for annexation (trigger for GER on peace: not control X territory by ally, set flag to true, on next event which is valid for all countries, check if flag is true, if so offer choice, choiceA: return African territory, choice B: fight for it).
 

zdlugasz

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Convoys and transports is the likeliest issue in 1914 scenario, everything else is manageable. Iirc, germany already loses all of its convoys attempting to supply Africa in our internal version of DH. We can force territory to be transferred back to GER regardless (type = secedeprovince when = 2) or a generic event can be written for annexation (trigger for GER on peace: not control X territory by ally, set flag to true, on next event which is valid for all countries, check if flag is true, if so offer choice, choiceA: return African territory, choice B: fight for it).

I know that we can write events for everything, but the issue was how to get "realistic" colonial wars.
Just out of curiosity:how long (in your next iteration of DH) German convoys lasted and how long OstAfrica troops lasted?
 

Limith

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I know that we can write events for everything, but the issue was how to get "realistic" colonial wars.
Just out of curiosity:how long (in your next iteration of DH) German convoys lasted and how long OstAfrica troops lasted?
I dunno, someone else did the observation that they run out of convoys.

It won't be a major problem in 1.04 afaik :D
 

zdlugasz

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It won't be a major problem in 1.04 afaik :D

That is just plain evil sir, I tell you, since you probably wont elaborate ...