Colonial Nations need a rework along with Naval Power.

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Atlantians

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Currently, Colonial Nations are Monoliths.

Yet Historically, different countries administered their colonies differently.

Being inspired by this thread: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-colonial-nations-into-colonial-areas.980297/

I would like to propose a better system for representing this:

As it works now, when you have 5 provinces in a Colonial Region, a Colonial Nation forms which will include all future colonies in that region. These regions are very large:

Colonial_regions.png


I would propose an alternative system that integrates several mechanics:

Similar to your Native Policy, have a Colonial Policy that lets you set how your Colonies will be handled: Area-Based, Region-Based, or Colonial-Region-Based.

Essentially, an area-based policy would form a Colonial Nation once you have 5 provinces in adjacent areas within the Colonial regions.

Region-Based Colonial Nations would form a Colonial Nation once you have 5 provinces in a region.

Region-Based Colonial Nations would form a Colonial Nation once you have 5 provinces in a colonial region.

You would get a free Merchant when you have 10 or more Colonial Provinces in a Trade Region and you have more than a certain share of the trade power in that region.

Additionally, you would be able to set a Province, or even a State as a Crown Colony and prevent it from forming a separate Nation. Later, you could release that Crown Colony as a Colonial Nation or join it with an existing one, as you see fit.

Related to this, would also like to see an integration of Trade Company Regions with Colonial Regions and have the option of forming Trade Companies in areas like the Mediterranean, especially when you are having to compete with other colonizers and can't build up a full Colonial Nation. Crown Colonies in the Americas could be granted to form Trade Companies if so desired, instead of a Colonial Nation.

This would be most useful in sections where you were not able to colonize enough provinces to form a Colonial Nation.

NAVAL REWORK:

-Give Heavy Ships, Galleys, and Light Ships the ability to each carry a single Army unit.

-While carrying a unit, attrition for the ship and the unit should be increased significantly each month, when away from friendly coastlines, thus making transporting units longer distances a dicey affair until the later techs.

-Rework Transports to be Crown-Chartered Trade Ships, not carrying units, but rather supporting Trade Missions too and from Trade Regions. Rather than sailing in circles, Trade Ships would actually travel too and from major areas of trade carrying event-based goods or ducats for the crown, similar to the idea of Gold Ships from the new world, but simultaneously increasing trade power along the route.

-Trade Ships would now require escorts to protect them from pirates and protect trade. They should also be cheaper than other classes.

-Merge the Protect Trade and Hunt Pirates Missions for Light Ships into One Mission. When Trade Ships come within their trade zone, they would escort those ships, preventing pirates.

-Unescorted ships would be vulnerable to pirates and have their assets, and the ship itself, sunk or seized.

-Trade ships, escorted (or unescorted at great risk!) by light or heavy ships, should also be able to be assigned to ferry colonists to the new colonies, simultaneously increasing the growth rate of the colony, at the expense of the opportunity cost of other potentially more lucrative missions.

-Limit all ships to one upgrade. Upgrading a ship would give it 'veteran warship' status, which would give Naval Tradition and Prestige. However, they can only be refit once, and eventually they will need to:

-Be converted into trade ships or sold.

-Allow old ships to be converted into trade ships by stripping them of most of their guns. A veteran ship that was converted to a trade ship would still give some naval tradition, but would not be as efficient as a dedicated Trade Ship (more maintenance cost and the like).

-Galleys should be reworked in this manner:
+Can be used as Trade Ships when not at war.
+Cost manpower alongside sailors.
+Cheaper.
+Can not be upgraded to Veteran Status!

Please share more ideas and add to the thread!
 
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grommile

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First obvious issue is that plenty of areas don't have five provinces.
 
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Republic of Mercury

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Also, I think there's a limited number of tags available for colonial nations. Area-based would chew through those. What would be the point of the different options anyway?
 
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Granathar

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How about separate CN for every State area? And then just intelligent management of States in new world, so they are not 1 or 12 provinces, but something in the middle. But I don't actually see a reason behind such atomization to be honest. Biggest colonial areas may be cut in half - like Mexico, Louisiana, Thirteen Colonies, Brazil or La Plata and that's it. Caribbean should still remain as one region. Still, just as I said - I'm not sure if we really need this, but separating CNs would make colonization a little faster.

IMO colonization speed should be influenced by % of trade power in colonial region. But I think that AI won't be able to handle it. Maybe +1 colonial growth per 5-10 points of trade power generated by light ships in certain colonial area? Caravel has 2.5 trade power, so sending 2 would give +1 colonial growth and sending 20 would give +10. You know, safer routes, less pirates, people know who gives them protection. It should give fixed bonus even to CNs (from their own ships too), so CN would have +10 extra colonial growth from overlord's fleet and probably like 2-3 more from theirs. It should work only in regions fit for CNs, not trade companies.
 
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Van der Gent

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I agree that colonial nations need to be re-worked but I'm not sure I like OP's suggestion as unless combined with several other changes to CN it would basically ALWAYS be advantageous to have smaller colonial nations due to them not risking to grow too big so that their liberty desire may become a problem.

Also I'm curious why the thread title says "along with naval power" since this doesn't seem to have been brought up in the post. :p
 
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Granathar

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Also I'm curious why the thread title says "along with naval power" since this doesn't seem to have been brought up in the post.

There were so many ideas about improving fleets without even doing nearly anything from AI side... ;) I had a few ideas myself.

Some of my ideas regarding protectorates there:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-exploration-cbs-makes-the-game-worse.988488/

And there:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-protectorate-institution-suggestions.987811/

Many naval ideas there:

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...han-twitter-poll-remove-sailors.987136/page-2

And I'm pretty sure that we will not see any of them, because PDX has always "better things to do".
 
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Van der Gent

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And I'm pretty sure that we will not see any of them, because PDX has always "better things to do".

I'd recommend you to compile and expand upon your suggestions and then post it in the suggestions forum, that's would be your best shot to have them noticed. :)
 
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Van der Gent

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I'm not convinced that devs actually take these suggestions into account.

Convinced or not, that's still your best shot to have your suggestions noticed. If they like it or think it has some merit I'm sure they'll take it into consideration.
 
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Granathar

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Convinced or not, that's still your best shot to have your suggestions noticed. If they like it or think it has some merit I'm sure they'll take it into consideration.

Dozens of good ideas are everywhere on this forum, do you see ANY of them implemented into game? Because I don't. Devs only pay attention when bugs or exploits are found, I'm not sure if there is even one single idea, that was posted by community and actually managed to appear in EU IV in it's original form. When community wants them to change something, they sometimes do change something (rare thing lastly), but not in way posted by community, but in way they want it to do. So actually posting suggestions here and there is rather like making sure that they WILL NOT appear in game, and the more ideas there are, the less things can devs "invent" themselves and then, they will just change nothing. Maybe fleets and land warfare are not reworked because few years ago community came with ideas, placed them on the forum and due to allergic reaction they cannot be implemented anymore?
 
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Republic of Mercury

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Sfan

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No but actually OP, the main reason why you think Devs don't look is because they almost do not look this forum. They read everything in suggestion forum and in bug report section however. That's why people should post their bugs in bug report and not here, and their suggestion in suggestion and not here if they want to be constructive.

And as Republic of Mercury has said, countless of things have been implemented into the game or corrected due to player suggestions.
The only thing devs seemingly don't care about despite countless interesting posts is Eastern Asia.
 
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Republic of Mercury

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No but actually OP, the main reason why you think Devs don't look is because they almost do not look this forum. They read everything in suggestion forum and in bug report section however. That's why people should post their bugs in bug report and not here, and their suggestion in suggestion and not here if they want to be constructive.

And as Republic of Mercury has said, countless of things have been implemented into the game or corrected due to player suggestions.
The only thing devs seemingly don't care about despite countless interesting posts is Eastern Asia.

I think they care, I'm just hoping that they're taking the time needed to create something the ends up being worth the time it took to create.
 
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Sfan

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And naval warfare, land warfare, idea balance and many other things.

The fact that you (and I for some things) don't like naval warfare, land warfare or ideas balance doesn't mean Paradox doesn't care. They invested patches and DLCs into it even if you can consider them failures.
Naval warfare was the main topic of Mare Nostrum even if the DLC is highly debated. They changed some width mechanics for new balance in 1.18.
Land warfare was changed in 1.18 and again in 1.19.
Ideas balance was changed in 1.19 to make influence less of a no brainer.

I wonder how you can decently say Paradoy does not care if you are being honest.

You may not like what they do but they try doing stuff.
 
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Colonial Regions are fine. What CNs need are different *government types* chosen by their overlord, representing more or less autonomy/self-government for the colonies. There's a big difference between a Spanish-style viceroyalty and an English-style colonial charter.
 
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DDRJake

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I'm not convinced that devs actually take these suggestions into account.

I go through the suggestion forums every single working day, and quite often on my weekends too.

I can't always respond though, because there are tonnes of suggestions, I often just take note of cool things or hum and ho over 'em, but when there is a very clear hell yes or heck no, I like to pop in with those too.

Or sometimes just respond to these posts to make it clear that yes, we are listening, and indeed are very grateful for the suggestions, both good and bad.

That said I'm not sold on this CN suggestion, we have fairly non-uniform areas and it would potentially spawn a load of tags.
 
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Granathar

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You may not like what they do but they try doing stuff.

I am programmer myself and in my honest opinion they rather want to look like they are doing something rather than really do it. Just look at the mods. M&T alone stands as demonstration what can just a bunch of amateurs do with game mechanics, and PDX has full crew of professional programmers with access to actual .exe of EU4 and hardcoded fragments. I don't care that they are "trying" because Mare Nostrum changing nothing important in terms of navy is priced 15$ on Steam (and has many negative scores). A bunch of modders do 3 times more new stuff for free in 1-2 months than this DLC is actually adding. I'm just tired of waiting for things to get changed and refreshed, and I think it's not only me. I get it that software development is very time consuming thing, I do it myself. But after many DLCs many things community is saying are still not taken into account (IMO). There is big potential lying in new era mechanics, but it would be a real shame if there would be only more missions and click-to-spend-mana-and-gain-bonus things.
 
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