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Lemont Elwood

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I probably make a post suggesting colonial cultures once every, say, week. That's not what I'm talking about here.

As it is, every province you colonize adopts the Primary Culture. However, that neither makes for compelling gameplay, nor is it realistic. I'm not familiar with the regional identities of Spanish and French immigrants, but I do know that the British colonies had a variety of cultures. My own people, the Appalachians, were Scottish transplants, while many of the Caribbean provinces would be - if not for slavery's introduction of large black populations - Irish.

Furthermore, things can get weird when you've "broken" history, or are playing a converted/custom game. For example, I've been playing a Crusader Kings II game in which my empire is about the size of Trajan's Rome, but has had almost NO culture-shifting. If it were converted to EU4, the cultures would be more or less the same as in the 1444 start. However, all colonies I would acquire would be Greek. By the end of the game, I could expect to see a wholly-Greek New World.

This is clearly not ideal. Thankfully, my proposal to fix it is quite simple:

When a province turns into a "city," have an event fire changing it to any one of the colonizer's cultures, with the chance of a particular culture gaining it being based on its percentage of Development relative to the Development of the entire nation.

For example, suppose our nation had 23 Development in all of its, say, Scottish provinces, 15 Development in all of its Irish provinces, and 38 in all of its English provinces (I'm pulling these numbers out of my ass). That would work out to:
50% chance of turning English
30% chance of turning Scottish
20% chance o turning Irish

Of course, we don't want it to be totally random, so there could also be a modifier where having a minority culture increases the chance of any neighboring colony turning to it, while decreasing the chances of that happening elsewhere. Supposing that we had an English colony in Pamlico, an English colony in Manhattan, and a Scottish colony in Mikmaq, provinces bordering Mikmaq would have something like a 50% chance of turning Scottish, while the chance would decline to 10% in provinces bordering Pamlico and Manhattan. Irish chances would remain the same.

Furthermore, special events, decisions, and policies could be used to do things like, say, increase your Colonists/Settler rate at the expense of increased chance of minority settlement, to do the reverse, or other trade-offs.

Ultimately, what this system would accomplish is creating a mechanic in which multicultural realms' diversity is reflected in their colonization, and the minorities develop to form local strongholds.
 
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AmbroStoics

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Or you could designate a home province from which the colonists arrive, bringing their religion and culture. it could also provice the chance for events specific to these provinces, like ones where deveopment from the home province can shift to the colonized one. But over all, I think there needs to be something done with this.
 
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Lemont Elwood

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Or you could designate a home province from which the colonists arrive, bringing their religion and culture. it could also provice the chance for events specific to these provinces, like ones where deveopment from the home province can shift to the colonized one. But over all, I think there needs to be something done with this.

Yeah, a more elaborate system would allow for that, or... and this does seem like a must-have... Colonial Manpower. A little country like Venice simply shouldn't be able to colonize as much land as a big one like Spain.
 

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What's to stop a player, after seeing their colony change culture in an undesirable way, just abandoning the colony and starting again hoping to get a more favorable one? Maybe if the culture was hidden until a colony becomes a city?
 

Lemont Elwood

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Do note, I said after it becomes a city. Not a colony. A city - completely finished.
 
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Danfish77

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Do note, I said after it becomes a city. Not a colony. A city - completely finished.
My comment is withdrawn! However this system would necessitate the game remembering a list of all past colonizers for each colony, which wouldn't require a huge amount of memory but would certainly be non-trivial; save games would be a bit bigger, too.
 

johnleeyx

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My comment is withdrawn! However this system would necessitate the game remembering a list of all past colonizers for each colony, which wouldn't require a huge amount of memory but would certainly be non-trivial; save games would be a bit bigger, too.

What does it need to remember? The culture would be calculated freshly each time with a ratio drawn from the development of each culture in that country.
 

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What does it need to remember? The culture would be calculated freshly each time with a ratio drawn from the development of each culture in that country.

When a province turns into a "city," have an event fire changing it to any one of the colonizer's cultures, with the chance of a particular culture gaining it being based on its percentage of Development relative to the Development of the entire nation.

So the end culture of a colony would be based on a percentage chance, which itself draws from the cultures from any one of the province's colonizers; I'm assuming this includes those nations who have held the colony prior to it turning into a city, which would make sense. If 998 Basques settle while Spain owns it and Britain wins the colony in a peace deal, those people shouldn't suddenly become Welsh or English, although that would still be more interesting than the current system.
 

aleatorus

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I think the current system as it stands is fine. On some level, there's a certain assimilation that gets assumed. After all culture =/= ethnicity especially when it comes to colonies. People who are really attached to their culture aren't the ones who are emigrating after all.

For instance, in the US, the largest ancestry group are Germans, yet English is obviously the most common language and American culture is much closer to British culture than German culture. Plus, there are god knows how many other nationalities that have immigrated and have subsequently assimilated. I mean, I know a lot of Irish people, and the only time their ancestry is relevant is St. Patrick's Day.

Of course, the Victoria pop system is clearly more detailed and nuanced than the culture system in EUIV, but I think EU's relative simplicity gives Paradox a bit of leeway as far as properly representing culture.
 

Reverend Belial

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I love this idea. I've had this gripe for as long as I've colonized as anybody but pre-detailed Castile/Spain. In my ultimately short-lived Scandinavia game (Common Sense came out shortly after) I really realized how annoying it was that despite my head-canon (for lack of a better word) of a more united Scandinavia I was for some reason populating the New World exclusively with Danes. Then I got to thinking about other nations like Britain or if (*shudder*) Germany were to colonize and how annoying that would be.
 
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Lemont Elwood

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So the end culture of a colony would be based on a percentage chance, which itself draws from the cultures from any one of the province's colonizers; I'm assuming this includes those nations who have held the colony prior to it turning into a city, which would make sense. If 998 Basques settle while Spain owns it and Britain wins the colony in a peace deal, those people shouldn't suddenly become Welsh or English, although that would still be more interesting than the current system.

I really hadn't thought that far ahead. I'd also forgotten that a nation can own a colony started by another nation. I think that the simplest solution is to just not take that into account, as it's a scenario that's unlikely to occur, and later immigration from the new owners would surely displace the few settlers who created the initial settlement.

I love this idea. I've had this gripe for as long as I've colonized as anybody but pre-detailed Castile/Spain. In my ultimately short-lived Scandinavia game (Common Sense came out shortly after) I really realized how annoying it was that despite my head-canon (for lack of a better word) of a more united Scandinavia I was for some reason populating the New World exclusively with Danes. Then I got to thinking about other nations like Britain or if (*shudder*) Germany were to colonize and how annoying that would be.

Oof, you reminded me of my own Scandinavia game. There really needs to be more cultures. Picture, if you would, a mestizo who is of a hybrid Dano-Aztec culture...

I think the current system as it stands is fine. On some level, there's a certain assimilation that gets assumed. After all culture =/= ethnicity especially when it comes to colonies. People who are really attached to their culture aren't the ones who are emigrating after all.

For instance, in the US, the largest ancestry group are Germans, yet English is obviously the most common language and American culture is much closer to British culture than German culture. Plus, there are god knows how many other nationalities that have immigrated and have subsequently assimilated. I mean, I know a lot of Irish people, and the only time their ancestry is relevant is St. Patrick's Day.

Of course, the Victoria pop system is clearly more detailed and nuanced than the culture system in EUIV, but I think EU's relative simplicity gives Paradox a bit of leeway as far as properly representing culture.

You're failing to account, however, for that you're observations are based on the 21st Century US, not the early 19th Century. Culture is also not just language, and cultural divisions were quite significant in shaping colonial cultures (most Southerners, for example, came from the Celtic parts of Britain and the northern provinces, while most Northerners came from the south).

In Victoria II, this would be simulated (accurately) as a Yankee/Dixie division. Well, EU4 doesn't currently use dynamic colonial culture systems, but we could see a rough approximation of that sort of thing through minority culture.
 
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