Collapsing France

[Bellicosity]

I saw a thread the other day about collapsing the HRE involving a number of assassinations and child rulers, and thought while playing in Spain I would try to destroy France to give myself a little breathing room.

Being elective, it will not collapse. I went on a damn near 50 year assassination binge to try and bring it down. In then end (not shown in the screenshots) I just started siding with each and every independence war.

It was a bad 50 years for France, yet they are still strong as ever.

Anyone know of a method to disassemble an elective monarchy through subterfuge and not straight up war?

Edit: If you're curious about those weird borders in the HRE, here's the explanation

 

[unmerged(206584)]

Pretty much impossible. I made an elective monarchy so I could get my duke on the french throne. By the time he was on the throne France had conquered basically all of Andalusia and aragon.

 

[Bellicosity]

They were stupid strong despite going through something like 21 Kings over the course of a 44 years. If that happened to my dynasty, the entire country would be filled with civil war.

Edit: was more exacting

 

[whosthebestcop]

Wow they switched to elective. Strange I saw them switch to seniority once. It is extremely hard to get a child ruler on the thrown in elective. You just have to get lucky with the right votes and family configurations.

So forgetting the idea to get a child ruler on french throne and assuming you are playing with 1.07 then I would only assassinate the current ruler if the next person inline has some bad traits that give negative vassal opinion. Then once he is on the throne you get him excommunicated which is easier if France has free investiture and you have papal.

Excom is -30 to all vassals. Which should easily allow several factions to form and most likely launch. Then if it is an independence faction that launched you can support and cause France to splinter.

You might also have to assassinate the current pope then immediately gift the new pope to get him to like you so you can get French King excommunicated.

 

[AndreasPhokas]

granted this is from a mod but i managed to support the duke of aquitaine in his independance war(alexiad start).......then the french king converted to lollard who then got crusaded by the pope for aquitaine

So the entire southern half of france is going to be destroyed

 

[thekinguter]

Hmm interesting. Does anyone have the link to the thread about collapsing the HRE btw?

 

[Comradebot]

granted this is from a mod but i managed to support the duke of aquitaine in his independance war(alexiad start).......then the french king converted to lollard who then got crusaded by the pope for aquitaine

So the entire southern half of france is going to be destroyed

Aye, its a mod and massive luck involved.

In my experience, France almost always grows into a super-steamroller of death. The times I've seen them collapse was back with the old Mongol mechanics and they lost an invasion (and later the Catholic French Mongols were overrun by Muslims), and one time sorta more recently where Aquitaine united and rebelled while they were fighting the HRE. Aquitaine won its independence, but only kept it because I allied with them (they're weaker than France in the early years). I'd think getting the Occitanian and Dutch vassals to all rebel at once is probably the real key... but even with factions, I mostly just see the Duchy of Flanders suiciding in a pointless independence war they can't win. Still, get those two into an independence faction right at the get go, and start the war just as France is getting bogged down elsewhere.

And honestly, my game where France lost Aquitaine is one of my all time favorites. Its me (Wales-Galicia), Aquitaine and de Barcelona Aragon fighting the reconquista. Good times. Sadly, it was pre-Mali, so that turns me off a bit to continue the game. That, and various Christians (even France, who is now nowhere near the area) have stomped all over North Africa (as always). Really wish the HRE and France would stay the frak out of North Africa, it should stay reserved as a battleground for Italian and Iberian christians. I love Germany, but I get tired of seeing there people overrunning Tunisia every single game.

 

[Bellicosity]

Wow they switched to elective. Strange I saw them switch to seniority once. It is extremely hard to get a child ruler on the thrown in elective. You just have to get lucky with the right votes and family configurations.

So forgetting the idea to get a child ruler on french throne and assuming you are playing with 1.07 then I would only assassinate the current ruler if the next person inline has some bad traits that give negative vassal opinion. Then once he is on the throne you get him excommunicated which is easier if France has free investiture and you have papal.

Excom is -30 to all vassals. Which should easily allow several factions to form and most likely launch. Then if it is an independence faction that launched you can support and cause France to splinter.

You might also have to assassinate the current pope then immediately gift the new pope to get him to like you so you can get French King excommunicated.

Gonna try this

 

[A_Dane]

Aye, its a mod and massive luck involved.

In my experience, France almost always grows into a super-steamroller of death. The times I've seen them collapse was back with the old Mongol mechanics and they lost an invasion (and later the Catholic French Mongols were overrun by Muslims), and one time sorta more recently where Aquitaine united and rebelled while they were fighting the HRE. Aquitaine won its independence, but only kept it because I allied with them (they're weaker than France in the early years). I'd think getting the Occitanian and Dutch vassals to all rebel at once is probably the real key... but even with factions, I mostly just see the Duchy of Flanders suiciding in a pointless independence war they can't win. Still, get those two into an independence faction right at the get go, and start the war just as France is getting bogged down elsewhere.

And honestly, my game where France lost Aquitaine is one of my all time favorites. Its me (Wales-Galicia), Aquitaine and de Barcelona Aragon fighting the reconquista. Good times. Sadly, it was pre-Mali, so that turns me off a bit to continue the game. That, and various Christians (even France, who is now nowhere near the area) have stomped all over North Africa (as always). Really wish the HRE and France would stay the frak out of North Africa, it should stay reserved as a battleground for Italian and Iberian christians. I love Germany, but I get tired of seeing there people overrunning Tunisia every single game.

Never really seen France amount to anything, the HRE is an entirely different story though.. only seen them implode once, and that because I, as the King of Burgundy, Italy, Lotharingia & Frisia, decided it was time to for me to to strike out on my own.