Collaborators and War crimes mod *request for rules clarification*

[MagnusStultus]

Would making a mod that gives historical collaborator events (i.e. Wang Jingwei for China, Leopold King of Belgium for Belgium, Quisling for Norwegians, Skanderbeg division etc) that makes occupation of a country trigger the option to welcome said collaborator to your side increasing research and manpower to simulate how helpful said collaboration was be against the rules for mods for this game? If not does anyone think it would be a good idea or think it could be balanced well to be both significant without creating a snowballing effect?

Furthermore on the most touchy of subjects would events detailing what the axis was in fact doing going to nations in the allies be acceptable or would it go against the no Holocaust policy? I am asking because I think the policy is to prevent people from indulging their racist side by doing the Holocaust; but if I am not Germany then Germany going to war without that motivation is somewhat immersion breaking because the entire war effort was for the purpose of committing the Holocaust

Link to Holocaust discussion scrubbed - Secret Master

Note it is openly stated no aspect of the German war machine is separate from the Holocaust).

If I am wrong I apologize for even asking and will not try and share such a mod on the second question.


The limited benefits from just occupation in HOI III seemed just wrong to me, from the Milice to the "Empire of Vietnam" occupied countries for the most part produced plenty of people short on patriotism but extremely high on self promotion with the invaders.

 

[Number 7]

the german economy would have collapsed without expansion through war, it was a ticking time bomb. So theres still a very good reason to go to war in the hearts of iron series from a historical point of view that has nothing to do with forbidden topics on the forums

 

[MagnusStultus]

the german economy would have collapsed without expansion through war, it was a ticking time bomb. So theres still a very good reason to go to war in the hearts of iron series from a historical point of view that has nothing to do with forbidden topics on the forums

Listen to the lecture I posted; it is far too long since WW2 to ignore why it happened. To be honest Germany suffered from the racial laws prior to the start of the extermination phase of the Holocaust.

Hitler made the nazi racial program the number one priority; I really do not think there is any controversy or disagreement about that anywhere.

 

[Oddb@ll]

I don't know what you're suggesting exactly, but I think it is off limits. No point in discussing it since the Holocaust is clearly a restricted topic. Thread should be locked.

 

[MagnusStultus]

I don't know what you're suggesting exactly, but I think it is off limits. No point in discussing it since the Holocaust is clearly a restricted topic. Thread should be locked.

The collaborators however?

They aren't an insignificant part of the picture.

From China to Norway axis powers set up collaborationist units that did a great deal to free up German soldiers for other uses, while granting a great deal of useful intelligence (one of the uses of leadership).

Even in Russia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Vlasov

there were two ideas.

 

[SchwarzKatze]

Aren't collaborators in since forever?

 

[MagnusStultus]

I don't know what you're suggesting exactly, but I think it is off limits. No point in discussing it since the Holocaust is clearly a restricted topic. Thread should be locked.

Would you mind reading both questions?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Vlasov

Russia was not exceptional for having very high profile collaborators; name any country and you will get a name; some very unexpected.

The first idea is when you occupy a country you get a major collaborator even before you annex to simulate the tendency to collaborate by a sadly endless number of locals.

The second idea is if you aren't in the axis you get messages about what the axis is doing as the game progresses.

 

[MagnusStultus]

Aren't collaborators in since forever?

I have never encountered them just from occupation; i.e. if you only do historically well as Japan in China you don't get them my idea is the collaborators enter the picture before annexation

 

[SchwarzKatze]

I have never encountered them just from occupation; i.e. if you only do historically well as Japan in China you don't get them my idea is the collaborators enter the picture before annexation

Well HoI3 and 4 doesn't appear to portray government of occupied territories any more than occupation policies so they probably won't appear before puppeting the said countries.

 

[MagnusStultus]

Well HoI3 and 4 doesn't appear to portray government of occupied territories any more than occupation policies so they probably won't appear before puppeting the said countries.

How hard do you speculate it would be to add an event for the nations to trigger an event to simulate it with it not being in the game then?

i.e. for the Russian example once you reach say Kiev you get event 1st Galician granting manpower and intel, once you get to Leningrad you get event Vlasov granting leadership?

If possible do you think it would be a good idea?

 

[MarcoRossolini]

I feel myself agreeing with you.

Some crimes are too great to be ignored.

Often it's too easy to whitewash WW2, especially given how fashionable the "bad guys" are these days.

I think though that we're breaking enough forum rules as it is. So I'll leave off here. I don't believe we're meant to discuss forum rules but I find that forum rule particularly... unhelpful to some people's understanding of the wider war. Some people seem to have Tiger tanks in their eyes and nothing else.

I've said enough. I'd like to think I won't get banned for this... but... we'll see. :/

 

[panzerzombie]

thread closure in 3....2....1.....

 

[HeilLoki]

If Hitler loved the jews, he would've started the war anyways. No, to the notion that "the entire war effort was for the purpose of committing the Holocaust". Your source is plain wrong.

Commiting a genocide wasn't the reason for the war, it was the consequence of Hitlers racist views. The war against Poland and France wasn't started because of his racist views, but because he wanted former german land back. That's called revanchism/expansionism. The war would've started even if Hitlers name would've been Goldstein.

Here's someone saying on youtube that the earth is flat. He must be right. He's on youtube:

 

[Shade205]

You can mod the game as much and in any way you want to, including the most heinous crimes of the war. And you can share it with everyone.

Nothing they can do. You just can't share it via the official forum.

 

[Surimi]

It isn't just a no holocaust policy, it's a no war crimes in general policy. We also aren't meant to discuss strategic bombing of civilians, for example. This is all very clearly laid out in the forum rules. Thus, I can't imagine this thread will remain up for very long.

However, to boil the entire motivation of the war down to a desire to perpetuate the holocaust in particular just doesn't work on a chronological level. That is all I will say, however, and I suggest we all drop this discussion.

 

[MagnusStultus]

If Hitler loved the jews, he would've started the war anyways. No, to the notion that "the entire war effort was for the purpose of committing the Holocaust". Your source is plain wrong.

Commiting a genocide wasn't the reason for the war, it was the consequence of Hitlers racist views. The war against Poland and France wasn't started because of his racist views, but because he wanted former german land back. That's called revanchism/expansionism. The war would've started even if Hitlers name would've been Goldstein.

Here's someone saying on youtube that the earth is flat. He must be right. He's on youtube:

It isn't just the experts I sourced who show that to be absolutely untrue it is absolutely everything Hitler and the Nazis ever said and what they actually did.

You are free to close your eyes to what Nazi Ideology was; but please at least listen to what experts who have spent the time reading through what Hitler said in public and private; and studied the evil that was nazism have to say before dismissing them because it doesn't fit your image of Germany.

The Holocaust was the central reason for the nazis, that it happened in phases and extermination was not phase one doesn't negate that (that idea is actually one of the myths of the second world war).

I really urge anyone who disagrees with the scholars I posted to actually go back to the Nazi Speeches both public or private to see if they could prove them wrong (which is impossible because they aren't wrong).

 

[Oddb@ll]

History is never as one-sided as you would have it be. It is always up for analysis and discussion, so claiming that it would be "impossible to prove a scholar wrong" shows a lack of understanding how to view history.


Only sith deals in absolutes.

 

[potski]

Time for @Had a dad to interrupt his Sunday afternoon, and bring this to a close.

 

[bubbas]

Time for @Had a dad to interrupt his Sunday afternoon, and bring this to a close.

+1

EDIT: From the forum rules:

NOTE: There will not be any gulags or deathcamps (including POW camps) to build in Hearts of Iron4, nor will there be the ability to simulate the Holocaust or systematic purges, so I ask you not to discuss these topics as they are not related to this game. Thank You. Threads bringing up will be closed without discussion.

 

[CaesarCzech]

Time for @Had a dad to interrupt his Sunday afternoon, and bring this to a close.

Im afraid he is escorting His Female relative throught one of Stockholm no go zones right now.