Cold War Tech Tree Extension Project

[Stahlwolf]

In my game, the japanese dominance was definitely not a result of a low american IC, but an extraordinarily retarded american AI.

So I guess, changing the IC of the US won't help much, as you already assumed.

 

[ozman2]

Stahlwolf,
Can you take a look at the savegame (alternately post a link to one)? I'd like to see what the USA's build scheme is. In 1936 and 1939 it does 80% naval and air builds. I'd like to know if it is properly switching the AI to wartime conditions (more army). Also the push to research nukes should begin in 1939.

 

[Stahlwolf]

klick

Here u go. Although I can't tell, if the save game will load correctly, because I implemented some new events and stuff. The game was started with a modified v0.27, but it also works with my modified v0.28.

(just a side note: don't be confused, in the years after achieving victory, I made extensive use of event 1012 to have fast progress in climbing the tech tree, cause the game got pretty boring... )

If you have problems opening the savegame...
I just took a look, and I'd say the US building scheme fits the one pre '39.
Although I'm not sure, if it is possible that this switch got kinda corrupted, because of my manual declaration of the Japanese-american War.
(remember? we discussed this back on page 42 or something)

 

[ozman2]

Thanks,
I got the save but will not attempt to load it since it's a 1.2 save. The 1.3 patch team made improvements in the build scheme for all countries and also made China a tougher nut to crack than before. I suggest completing any games you have in progress and then updating to Arma 1.3, and see if the problem persists. The next version of the CWE will be 1.3 only. Checked out USA build section--it is making about 35% land units, so I think it did get switched. Nuclear technologies, while not preferred, are not ignored either. AI tuneup might be in order. It could use a bump in the secret weapons, and a few more land units.

 

[unmerged(88606)]

To jump in on this discussion on the American AI, in my game as Japan, America was quiet behind in it's Secret Weapons research and never stopped building a massive navy. Mind you I never declared war on the US and they never joined the war with the Allies, so I don't know how much help this is. Anyways, if anything needs to be fixed, I would say some adjustments should be made to their priorities when researching. Regardless of whether America in involved in the war or isolationist. Other things might also need to be taken into account as well.

 

[unmerged(88606)]

Sorry Nomonhan, I just saw your above post now.
I completely agree with your ideas for a US AI update.

 

[Keioel]

The problem with the US AI is to be honest the number of transports the Japanese have been able to sink...they just aren't properly protecting them. Otherwise the build priorities are correct and it seems like they are finally getting more aggressive...aka their transports are making it through ....Also the reason the Japanese are doing so well in their theater is the fact that they knocked China out in 38 or 39 if I remember correctly and released Nanking. Thus they have all there units to help them out along with Manchukuo, and Mengkukuo, however Man's gone now and the Russians of course are caught between them and the Germans so the stalemate isn't really all that surprising. I'm definitely surprised that the Japanese AI has consistently been concentrating on India and only reacting to Russia defensively. Shouldn't Japan if in the Axis concentrate on helping Germany take Russia out of the Equation? Or do they simply take Vladivostok and stop...like they did in the game...if they were more aggressive they wouldn't have lost Manchukuo and Russia would be in a LOT worse of a position.

Edit: This is also one of the most exciting games I've played

 

[Lord of Time]

I did not change the file for the Cossacks and it looks like you've uncovered a vanilla bug. The ministers file for the Cossacks is numbered in a weird fashion and I suggest a little trial and error changing the minister numbers until they show. This kind of thing happens when minister numbers are duplicated.
EDIT: Found a solution--renumber
77127;Head of State;Nikita Kruschev;36;ML;Stern Imperialist;High;M518001;x
77128;Head of Government;Gheorghe Tatarescu;36;ML;Silent Workhorse;High;M22002;x
77129;Foreign Minister;Grigore Gafencu;36;ML;Biased Intellectual;Low;M22071;x
77130;Foreign Minister;Ion Gigurtu;36;ML;Ideological Crusader;Medium;M22047;x
77131;Foreign Minister;Nicolae Petrescu-Comnen;36;ML;Apologetic Clerk;Medium;M22070;x
77132;Foreign Minister;Gheorghe Tatarescu;36;ML;Iron Fisted Brute;Medium;M22002;x
77133;Foreign Minister;Istrate Micescu;36;ML;Great Compromiser;Medium;M22005;x
77134;Foreign Minister;Victor Antonescu;36;ML;General Staffer;Medium;M22007;x

...yeah. It still doesn't work in my version. (Though there is no problem with Foreign Minister.)

 

[Stahlwolf]

The board won't let me send this via pm (way too much characters...), so I dare posting this here

Well, but even if I mange to come up with some events regarding a negotiated white peace, I can only hope, the american ai is not as retarded, as I expect it to be. In my last game, the Americans didn't even research nuclear reactors (1943 tech IIRC) until 1950...

I've got it. The first event is the German event, with Hitler (or whoever's in charge)making the peace offer.If Germany says yes it triggers one of two American events (trigger both simultaneously)
The first American event would fire if they DON'T have a nuke and would have a very high ai chance of acceptance (99-100%). The second event fires if the DO have a nuke and would only have, say a 50-60% chance of acceptance. Certain other conditions should apply--Germany should not have lost any territory on the European continent to the Allies and the US should not have lost any of its homeland to the Germans--all that can be taken care of by the German event.

Sounds good to me. I will try to work something out tomorrow. I'll tell you, if the result is acceptable, although I think, you should come up with an own solution, to implement those events in the next update of your mod, simply because of your superior modding skills.

Yes, I'll take a look at what you come up with and fix it as needed. It does belong in the next version of the mod. Three events should be all that is required.

Ok, here we go...

##############################################
# White Peace negotiations Germany USA '47
# by Stahlwolf/nomonhan
##############################################

event = {
id = 8511000
random = no
country = GER

trigger = {
war = { country = GER country = USA }
control = { province = 18 data = GER } # Calais
control = { province = 42 data = GER } # Dieppe
control = { province = 32 data = GER } # Brest
control = { province = 175 data = GER } # Moscow
control = { province = 600 data = USA } # Boston
control = { province = 602 data = USA } # NY
control = { province = 650 data = USA } # Orlando
nuke = 1
AND = {
NOT = {
war = { country = GER country = ENG }
war = { country = GER country = SOV }
}
}
AND = {
NOT = {
OR = {
exists = JAP
alliance = { country = GER country = JAP }
}
}
}
}

name = "A chance for peace?"
desc = "Nach dem gewonnenen Krieg in Europa und Russland, bei gleichzeitiger
Niederlage des Japanischen Kaiserreiches, zeichnete sich zunehmend ein Patt zwischen den
letzten beiden verbliebenen Großmächten ab. Weder das Großdeutsche Reich, noch die USA waren
gewillt, die Wagnisse einer verlustreichen und kostspieligen Invasion auf sich zu nehmen.
Dies, die zunehmende Kriegsmüdigkeit des deutschen Volkes, sowie das Aufkommen neuer
vernichtender Technologien, wie der Atombombe, die das Potential hatte die gesamte Menschheit
in den Abgrund zu stürzen, sorgten schließlich dafür, dass der Führer gewillt war den
Amerikanern einen Weißen Frieden anzubieten."

picture = "ger_40064-65_Government1"
style = 0

date = { hour = 12 day = 0 month = january year = 1947 }
offset = 30
deathdate = { hour = 12 day = 29 month = december year = 1950 }

action_a = {
name = "The German people are craving for peace, lets not dissapoint them."
ai_chance = 70
command = { type = trigger which = 8511001 }
command = { type = trigger which = 8511002 }
command = { type = dissent value = -5 }
}
action_b = {
name = "There can be no peace, as long as the enemy still draws breath!"
ai_chance = 30
command = { type = sleepevent which = 8511001 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 8511002 }
command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
}
}

event = {
id = 8511001
random = no
country = usa

picture = "ger_40064-65_Government1"

trigger = {
event = 8511000
nuke = 0
}

name = "A chance for peace?"
desc = "Der Vorschlag des Führers des Großdeutschen Reiches erreichte schließlich den
US-Präsidenten, der nun vor einer der wichtigsten Entscheidungen seiner Amtsperiode stand.
Würde er als Friedensbringer in die Geschichte eingehen, jedoch gleichzeitig die neue
Weltordnung notgedrungen akzeptieren oder würde er den Krieg mit ungewissem Ausgang
fortsetzen, um bei den verbliebenen freien Völkern als Symbol des Widerstands neue Hoffnung zu
stiften, wohl wissentlich, dass dies das Ende der menschlichen Zivilisation bedeuten könnte?"
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Accept the generous offer. The world desperately needs this peace."
ai_chance = 95
command = { type = peace which = GER value = 0 }
command = { type = leave_alliance } # not sure if this is actually neccesary
command = { type = trigger which = 8511003 }
command = { type = dissent value = -5 }
}
action_b = {
name = "We can not accept a Nazi super power. We will fight to the end!"
ai_chance = 5
command = { type = trigger which = 8511004 }
command = { type = dissent value = 10 }
}
}

event = {
id = 8511002
random = no
country = usa

picture = "ger_40064-65_Government1"

trigger = {
event = 8511000
nuke = 1
}

name = "A chance for peace?"
desc = "Der Vorschlag des Führers des Großdeutschen Reiches erreichte schließlich den
US-Präsidenten, der nun vor einer der wichtigsten Entscheidungen seiner Amtsperiode stand.
Würde er als Friedensbringer in die Geschichte eingehen, jedoch gleichzeitig die neue
Weltordnung notgedrungen akzeptieren oder würde er den Krieg mit ungewissem Ausgang
fortsetzen, um bei den verbliebenen freien Völkern als Symbol des Widerstands neue Hoffnung zu
stiften, wohl wissentlich, dass dies das Ende der menschlichen Zivilisation bedeuten könnte?"
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Accept the offer. Nobody wants a nuclear holocaust."
ai_chance = 60
command = { type = peace which = GER value = 0 }
command = { type = leave_alliance } # not sure if this is actually neccesary
command = { type = trigger which = 8511003 }
command = { type = dissent value = -5 }
}
action_b = {
name = "We can not accept a Nazi super power, no matter the costs!"
ai_chance = 40
command = { type = trigger which = 8511004 }
command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
}
}

event = {
id = 8511003
random = no
country = GER

picture = "ger_40064-65_Government1"

trigger = {
event = 8511002
}

name = "At last..."
desc = "Die Amerikaner akzeptierten schließlich das Angebot auf Frieden und legten
damit gleichzeitig den Grundstein für den kurz darauf einsetzenden Kalten Krieg zwischen den
beiden Supermächten."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Great, now we will solidify our reign."
command = { type = dissent value = -10 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 8511004 }
}
}

event = {
id = 8511004
random = no
country = GER

picture = "ger_40064-65_Government1"

trigger = {
event = 8511002
}

name = "No end in sight"
desc = "Die Amerikaner lehnten das Angebot ab und stießen die Welt so an den Abgrund.
Die Doomsday-clock steht nun auf 5 vor 12. Möge Gott uns allen beistehen."
style = 0

action_a = {
name = "Fools! They will regret this. We shall strike with all we have!"
command = { type = dissent value = 5 }
command = { type = sleepevent which = 8511003 }
}
}

You really need to take a look at the trigger of the first event. I guess it should work, but I'm anything but certain about that...

If you need help with the translation of the event descriptions, let me know, although u did a fairly good job regarding the Barbarossa event, I wrote. So I have faith in your skills/babelfish/google

Also we should think about taking '48 instead of '50 as expiration date for the events, to prevent a possible colission with your fatherland scenario.

 

[Stahlwolf]

btw... since changing to 1.3 beta 2 and applying the zzpatch I noticed, that this whole spy issue doesn't work anymore. I can't send spys to any country, and as soon as I send a spy to my own country, it says that I have 25 of my own spys and a ridiulously high number of foreign spys in my country.
Any idea what may cause the problem, or at least, which files are responsible for this whole spy game thing?

The most annoying thing is, that nearly every second new messages about foreign spy missions pop up. This is just ridiculous. I mean, wtf???

So far, 1.3 beta 2 just sucks arse for me... -.-

(btw... i just noticed that you STILL didn't implement my translation regarding your tech tree...)

 

[ozman2]

Stahlwolf,
Be careful about applying the whole zpatch. Most importantly you need to see that these files get overwritten:
doomsdaytext.csv (has proper spy messages)
misc.txt
spycosts.txt
If you apply the patch properly it should get rid of the Unknown String Error messages.
The spy system was changed in 1.3 and at first many people, myself included, did not like it. The idea of sending spies to a particular country has gone, and you only have generic "intelligence level". If you have a greater then 0% chance of spy operations in any given country you can select your missions directly from the new spy menu. Overall most people seem to like the new system and it is at least programmable (I made some changes to the patch team settings, so that you can send spies to any country (but low chance of success if they are halfway around the globe) with any reasonable intelligence level. And AI spying is light years more effective.
In short be sure to overwrite anything and everything that the zpatch wants to overwrite. The biggest reason for the spy system fix is that it reduces CPU overhead and improves game speed--something that will definitely be a Fatherland issue.
Thank you for the events. It looks like you saved me some work, though I may polish things a little.
I thought I did implement the translations, but it's possible I missed a few items. Which items are missing?

 

[Stahlwolf]

So the whole spy system got changed? Oo
Well, this might explain some of the issues, I currently have.

If you apply the patch properly it should get rid of the Unknown String Error messages.

Yeah, already solved that. I noticed some new lines in the doomsdaytext.csv.
But thx anyway.

I will try to reinstall the 1.3 patch, applying the current version of your mod and zpatch. If everything works as it should, I will see if I can do something about my old modded files.

Thank you for the events. It looks like you saved me some work, though I may polish things a little

Yeah, as I said especially the first trigger needs some of your attention. I don't know if it fits 100% to your idea and I'm not even sure it's even working as I inteded.
Dissent was just an idea of mine to display that both countries' people actually WANT the proposed peace.
Anyways, you're welcome

 

[Stahlwolf]

I thought I did implement the translations, but it's possible I missed a few items. Which items are missing?

Ehrm... in 0.28 I didn't notice any of my translations. "Geschoß Kreuzer" is still "Geschoß Kreuzer" and not "Lenkwaffenkreuzer" and so on


edit: btw, I finally got this new spy system to work

 

[ozman2]

Good, you got the spy system to work. See PM also. You might notice improvement in translations along with the switch to 1.3. As I'm dropping 1.2 support in 0.29 I will concentrate only on improving the 1.3 doomsdaytext.csv file.

BTW on another issue I've decided to drop or bump up the C-160 Transall as a German (Third-Reich) model. In my mod level 4 DOES NOT need to be turboprop or turbojet. I actually made that change after discovering that the USA model 4 (C-124 Globemaster II) was a prop plane with radial engines. It turns out that Germany had an entirely suitable aircraft for the role designed in 1943 but scrapped--it was the Dornier Do P.192. I don't have a good level 5 transport for Germany. The choices are a) exaggerate the C-160 Transall's capabilities (could not carry the load of a C-130 Hercules) and put in as level 5 b) Invent something like "Junkers Herkules II" c) exaggerate the capabilities of Baade's proposed airline jets for East Germany
Proposed 154 variant of Baade 152 passenger airliner
Edit Maybe "Transall II"?

 

[Stahlwolf]

Well, in fact I don't like seeing the Transall C-160 as a 3rd Reich designation at all, cause Transall was a bilateral company (Germany and France). I don't find such a cooperation between the Reich and (Vichy) France logically comprehensible. I think you should rather go for one of your other proposals (I think I'd go with the Dornier project).

Alternatively, I could take a quick look at nexusboard. I think I saw some huge transport plane ib this website some days ago.

edit: Jup, maybe this will help...

http://www.nexusboard.net/sitemap/6365/grossraumtransporter-t296811/

But I'm not sure, if any of these planes would actually fit the desired specifications.

 

[Shogun 144]

Hello all,

I was wondering if someone could help me here. I downloaded version 0.28 of the CWE from the first page. Great work by the way, but I can not run the Fatherland scenario. Even though it is beta, I assume the scenario is suppose to be playable. The error I get is:

ERROR : (Unknown) 'extra1 = naval_anti_air_s' Line = 209 file = scenarios\1948\ARG.inc

Is this WAD or can someone help me figure out how to fix the problem?

Thanks in Advance

 

[Keioel]

Nomonhan do you want me to continue the Iberia game till one of the nations falls...or move onto testing Fatherland as Nat Chi?

Edit: Ok so I loaded up as Nat Chi...just now picking techs and noticed you went with Human Wave Doctrine and I was just wondering as to why? I usually go Infiltration Doctrine for the faster movement over land and was wondering if I was making a bad choice.

 

[Keioel]

Ok interesting...first game I chose to go with Partition plan even though EC went with rebuild...until I looked in the events file and didn't see any core reclaim events in case of war...so new they went with prepare for war as did I...then the game crashed for some odd reason, new new game they went with partition and I went with no deals and the war kicked off March 8th no problems so far

 

[ozman2]

@Stahlwolf
The issue in detail is this--In the vanilla HOI2 Doomsday/DDA all technologies from about 1950-65 are lumped together as "1951 technology" I differentiate in my mod. I've for a long time added one transport. I've decided TWO levels are more appropriate.
Since I'm dropping the turbojet/turboprop requirement for level 4 the Dornier is a more than adequate replacement and even though built as a flying boat to resupply submarines at sea, it seems to me the most logical choice and has the load carrying capacity and great range.
Level 5 is USA C-130 Hercules or Amtonov An-12. The C-130 had a just slightly higher load capacity but the Antonov had greater airspeed. Both were turboprops. I've refined the requirements for level 5 to
Speed 550 km/hr
range 2000 km
about 20000-30000 kg carrying capacity (not in the game stats but in real life)
Turboprop or turbojet (usually turboprop)
The Junkers model would not fit specs for level 5. The Transall is a weak candidate for #5 but a candidate nonetheless. It would also require bumping the French plane to #5 and finding a replacement for level 4 for France. The Transall is just a tad light on the load and range (16000 kg/1850 km--actually the wiki is not specific if this is a round trip or one way range and I have a sneaky feeling that it's a one way range meaning a combat radius of only 925 km.), but will use if no better alternative is available.
Level 6 (new level)
USA- C-5 Galaxy USSR Antonov An-22 Cock Germany--military conversion of A-300 Airbus or copy of Antonov An-22 (used turboprop which was originally derived from a Junkers designed engine)
Speed 750 km/hr
Range 3000-3500 km (haven't decided which yet)
larger carrying capacity than level 5

As for French-German (or Vichy-German) cooperation think that would be entirely possible, but supersonic planes, intercontinental bombers and the like would have been excluded. I base that on two sources. One is Albert Speer's book Inside the Third Reich in which he details his own efforts to increase Franco-German cooperation. For Speer it meant having the French concentrate on making consumer goods for Germany like shoes. The second source I unfortunately cannot pin down but it was some chance clipping I encountered from some aviation magazine describing the aviation industry in Vichy France. It described the CIVILIAN air industry as being alive and well and Breguet was one of the companies mentioned. As long as the application involved a MILITARY conversion of a CIVILIAN air project I see nothing wrong with hypothesizing a similar project. But I WILL change the manufacturer. The German company in the consortium was Messerschmitt, so it would be MESSERSCHMITT C-160. Maybe if Messerschmitt was building the plane to RLM specifications they'd insist on more range and payload capacity than a Germany only worried about ferrying troops around West Germany for self-defense.

I looked over the nexusboard and luft 46 sites and believe the Junkers EF100 to be the most suitable candidate but it would require the substitution of turboprops to meet specs
Likely end result
Model 4 Dornier P.192
Model 5 Junkers EF-100T (Turbopropellermaschine)
EDIT
Junkers turboprop with contra-rotating propellers ultimately improved for Soviet aircraft
Possible appearance of level 5 German air transport below (Tupolev TU-114 passenger airliner)

Possible appearance of German model 6 (Antonov AN-22)

@Keioel In Fatherland BOTH Chinas claim the whole area and the agreement (if it occurs) is to partition China. Only at that point are the cores given up. If EITHER SIDE refuses the plan then the war is prepared. If I was playing Nationalist China 36 GC I'd go with Grand Battle Japanese doctrine and in the postwar likely would opt for Modern Infantry. But historically they went with Soviet human wave and you're stuck with that choice. The question is whether as a human player you can pull out a victory in the war with EOC or whether I should weaken EOC a bit. The other choice is to program the Soviet AI to try to take advantage of the situation.

@shogun144
What version of HOI2 are you using? My mod requires Arma 1.2 or 1.3 beta 2 and as of 0.29 will require Arma 1.3 beta 2, which as far as I know will be the final version of the executable.

 

[Stahlwolf]

@Stahlwolf
As for French-German (or Vichy-German) cooperation think that would be entirely possible, but supersonic planes, intercontinental bombers and the like would have been excluded. I base that on two sources. One is Albert Speer's book Inside the Third Reich in which he details his own efforts to increase Franco-German cooperation. For Speer it meant having the French concentrate on making consumer goods for Germany like shoes. The second source I unfortunately cannot pin down but it was some chance clipping I encountered from some aviation magazine describing the aviation industry in Vichy France. It described the CIVILIAN air industry as being alive and well and Breguet was one of the companies mentioned. As long as the application involved a MILITARY conversion of a CIVILIAN air project I see nothing wrong with hypothesizing a similar project. But I WILL change the manufacturer. The German company in the consortium was Messerschmitt, so it would be MESSERSCHMITT C-160. Maybe if Messerschmitt was building the plane to RLM specifications they'd insist on more range and payload capacity than a Germany only worried about ferrying troops around West Germany for self-defense.

I looked over the nexusboard and luft 46 sites and believe the Junkers EF100 to be the most suitable candidate but it would require the substitution of turboprops to meet specs
Likely end result
Model 4 Dornier P.192
Model 5 Junkers EF-100T (Turbopropellermaschine)

Well, I never read that book, but from what you say it obviously seems possible that a willingness for cooperation with vichy france existed within the German Reich. And another thing learned.

But I agree with your favorite choice for model 5. It also has some nice artwork


btw... when do you think 0.29 will be ready for release?