It's very brief but there was a mouse-over on the COIL-L in https://www.twitch.tv/videos/496641130 at 40:30:28 Where it shows;
280 DMG, 0 STAB, +2 ACC, 140 HEAT.
COILs, and Coil lore exploration. Merged discussion
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It's very brief but there was a mouse-over on the COIL-L in https://www.twitch.tv/videos/496641130 at 40:30:28 Where it shows;
280 DMG, 0 STAB, +2 ACC, 140 HEAT.
I posted this in another thread I am going to put it here also
If you do not like the coil weapon then just do not use it.
Lot's of people are playing stock only
But I hope they show up in the Opfor units - will really up the excitement factor - A bit like first time running into Srm and Lrm carriers - Kill it ! Kill it Fast !
Edit : I do wonder if the AI will be able to figure out how to use it properly
If you do not like the coil weapon then just do not use it.
Lot's of people are playing stock only
But I hope they show up in the Opfor units - will really up the excitement factor - A bit like first time running into Srm and Lrm carriers - Kill it ! Kill it Fast !
Edit : I do wonder if the AI will be able to figure out how to use it properly
Ewwwwwww. Any mech that can carry it and hit 7 chevrons will shut down since those mechs have no room for heat sinks.
Edit: except for coolant vent, but this is a weapon that cries out for breaching shot.
IIRC this was supposed to be mounted on light and medium mechs only, right? Or am I imagining that restriction?
That is news to me. Hmm... whatever could be the rationale for a hard cutoff after 55-tons?
I doubt there is anything to prevent it, really, just that it makes the best effect on it. Though as I said - it'd give over-engined 'Mechs a helping hand
I wonder how many I could fit on an ACE PILOT’s BattleMaster? : )I doubt there is anything to prevent it, really, just that it makes the best effect on it. Though as I said - it'd give over-engined 'Mechs a helping hand
no where has it been stated these weapons are restricted to a particular weight class. only that they benefit from high movement rates that go with the lighter ones.
This all reminds me of the time back in BATTLETECH’s Kickstarter when Jordan released the update concerning BATTLETECH’s Turn Order Prototyping.
From that first introduction some of us were off and running, introducing the game’s mechanics into our own TableTop games in an effort to get a feel for the mechanic. And while at first there was much concern and no little consternation on the forum, as reports of play testing came back to the Community, fears were allayed, concerns set to rest and many of us came to accept the new paradigm presented to us by HBS. It was a very fun and interesting time.
Similarly we now have just enough (though admittedly still sketchy) information on HEAVY METAL’s COIL BEAM to begin running some BATTLETECH simulations on its performance. And just like Turn Order, the simulations I just ran have begun to allay my COIL Beam fears and set my concerns to rest. : )
Of course all the above gameplay and findings are only as good as the scant information I have been able to glean from the PDXCON HEAVY METAL demo video.
Like our earliest efforts to replicate BATTLETECH Turn Order on our TableTops, the above is only the first blush of an effort. As HEAVY METAL gameplay begins in the weekly Mitch Plays to Win broadcasts, I’ll be asking COIL-related questions in an attempt to confirm or deny my above best-estimations. And hopefully in the weeks ahead we’ll be treated to even more COIL Weapons use.
In its own way, this is just as much fun as our earlier efforts to understand BATTLETECH Turn Order.
And from what I have been able to determine thus far, just like Turn Order came to be the accepted norm, COIL Weapons will follow a similar path of acceptance. :bow:
From that first introduction some of us were off and running, introducing the game’s mechanics into our own TableTop games in an effort to get a feel for the mechanic. And while at first there was much concern and no little consternation on the forum, as reports of play testing came back to the Community, fears were allayed, concerns set to rest and many of us came to accept the new paradigm presented to us by HBS. It was a very fun and interesting time.
Similarly we now have just enough (though admittedly still sketchy) information on HEAVY METAL’s COIL BEAM to begin running some BATTLETECH simulations on its performance. And just like Turn Order, the simulations I just ran have begun to allay my COIL Beam fears and set my concerns to rest. : )
The first set of sims focused on a SUREFOOTED Jenner, the second on a SUREFOOTED Black Knight. In so doing I was able to sim both single and Multiple COIL Beams in Combat (one for the Jenner and 3 on the Black Knight.) Each Mech had a Level 10 Pilot. COIL Beams best estimations for the Jenner was set at 6-tons and 60 Heat replicating 4 “Purple” Chevrons of potential COIL Beam Damage and for the Black Knight set at 6-tons and 45 Heat replicating 3 “Purple” Chevrons of potential COIL Beam Damage.
Findings included the fact that given Mech movement over open ground, I could not get better than 4 “Purple” Chevrons of COIL Beam Damage from the Jenner, nor better than 3 “Purple” Chevrons of COIL Beam Damage from the Black Knight.
Sure the COIL Large scales to 280 but if you can’t realize 7 “Purple” Chevrons of COIL Beam Damage, that 280 Damage is a BoogieMan that will never be realized in game. I am at a loss as to explain just why Damage scales as high as it does.
From the multiple Sims I did run, the Damage is respectable and does indeed amp up a Light Mech’s Combat potential but not enough to unhinge BATTLETECH Combat in my opinion.
And even when multiple COIL Larges are used on a heavier Mech, the high Heat and relatively low number of “Purple” COIL Damage Chevrons, ensure that while Damage is again respectable it again does not unhinge BATTLETECH Combat.
Findings included the fact that given Mech movement over open ground, I could not get better than 4 “Purple” Chevrons of COIL Beam Damage from the Jenner, nor better than 3 “Purple” Chevrons of COIL Beam Damage from the Black Knight.
Sure the COIL Large scales to 280 but if you can’t realize 7 “Purple” Chevrons of COIL Beam Damage, that 280 Damage is a BoogieMan that will never be realized in game. I am at a loss as to explain just why Damage scales as high as it does.
From the multiple Sims I did run, the Damage is respectable and does indeed amp up a Light Mech’s Combat potential but not enough to unhinge BATTLETECH Combat in my opinion.
And even when multiple COIL Larges are used on a heavier Mech, the high Heat and relatively low number of “Purple” COIL Damage Chevrons, ensure that while Damage is again respectable it again does not unhinge BATTLETECH Combat.
Of course all the above gameplay and findings are only as good as the scant information I have been able to glean from the PDXCON HEAVY METAL demo video.
Like our earliest efforts to replicate BATTLETECH Turn Order on our TableTops, the above is only the first blush of an effort. As HEAVY METAL gameplay begins in the weekly Mitch Plays to Win broadcasts, I’ll be asking COIL-related questions in an attempt to confirm or deny my above best-estimations. And hopefully in the weeks ahead we’ll be treated to even more COIL Weapons use.
In its own way, this is just as much fun as our earlier efforts to understand BATTLETECH Turn Order.
And from what I have been able to determine thus far, just like Turn Order came to be the accepted norm, COIL Weapons will follow a similar path of acceptance. :bow:
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Honestly after 200 pinpoint damage it is just schematics.
Because either way, the light is going to 1 shot a Demolisher, from its side arc.
Even with an average shot of say "only" 200 (assuming 1 chevron adds 40 damage, 5 = 200), many heavies and some assaults are going to lose a side torso, with some a confirm kill from a CT rear shot. Or a leg. And most heavies and assault don't generate enough evasion stock to dodge the Coil-L of Doom. Even bracing/bulwark in cover, still eats a 120 damage volley.
Fast Medium mechs however will the bane of the light, because they pack nearly the same speed and can easily carry 2 COIL-Ls and easily off 2 lights with a single multi shot.
Then here is the other issue, many mediums are near equal to things like the Dragon / Quickdraw. 2 precision hits from COIL-Ls even with middling say 160 damage each is going to evaporate many of the lighter heavies. And heavies cannot react fast enough to catch meds who act 1 action earlier than them.
Of course I could be paranoid and HBS trims it down significantly and makes each Chevron add 20 damage.
Still a weapon that can throw out reliably AC/20 levels damage at 5 tons without ammo at AC/20 range ?
Man what a bargain
Still a weapon that can throw out reliably AC/20 levels damage at 5 tons without ammo at AC/20 range ?
Man what a bargain
It's the rest of the baggage which matters, I think. To get that kind of damage, you need to move that far first - something you may not always want to do. You'd also have to move specifically to tag the back armor, which can be done.
But seriously I keep looking at this and the more I look the more I wonder if it's as good as a Large Laser and some heat sinks for the weight/slots.
Excellent question, Good Sir. :bow:
For me...
On a Fast Light Mech? Go with the COIL-L.
On a 2/3 Assault? Go with the Large Laser.
On a Medium and Fast Heavy? Jury is still out.
Depends on the 'Mech I'd say. Something meant to get in close and fight, it might be worth it. Something like a Trenchbucket? Wasted.
The only video we have has the COIL firing within Med Laser Range...
...but that does not mean the COIL can’t reach out and touch an Enemy from AC2 Range.
A COIL-L’s Range is one of the great known/unknowns facing us. And it’ll be on my list of QUESTIONS for this week’s or next’s HEAVY METAL Play to Win. : )
I'm gonna make an assumption the thing does not have AC/2 or even AC/5 ranges. Mostly because that'd be too good.
As good as the 280 Max Damage?
I still can’t see how ANY Mech/MechWarrior combination can hit that 6th and 7th “Purple” Chevron of COIL-L Damage.
And that is really starting to bother me.
It is not like HBS to so visibly place an unobtainable Damage mechanic. Unless it is possible somewhere, it will only taunt and displease gamers trying to obtain it.
Maybe... maybe Jumping and COIL Weapons Fire will have a place in HEAVY METAL.
I’ve gone back over the PDXCON HEAVY METAL videos a number of times now and can not recall any instance of HBS speaking to Jumping and COIL Weapon usage.
Am I wrong in this? Does anyone recall HBS speaking to Jumping and COIL Weapon usage?
I'm thinking that a pair of COILs on the SLDF Griffin backed by support weapons will be pretty nasty.
In general, I'm intrigued by the COIL from a game play standpoint but not impressed with it from a lore standpoint. I just cannot come up with a way to have it make sense. Then again, giant robots don't make sense from a realism standpoint, and here I am as a Battletech fan.
In general, I'm intrigued by the COIL from a game play standpoint but not impressed with it from a lore standpoint. I just cannot come up with a way to have it make sense. Then again, giant robots don't make sense from a realism standpoint, and here I am as a Battletech fan.
In general, I'm intrigued by the COIL from a game play standpoint but not impressed with it from a lore standpoint. I just cannot come up with a way to have it make sense. Then again, giant robots don't make sense from a realism standpoint, and here I am as a Battletech fan.
That's about where I am, because I can come up with paper-thin "alibis" for it working - but it's about as thin as Star Trek replicators/holodecks making sense in the least.
Honestly even if a medium mech can only crank up "only 200 damage" per COIL-L, it can carry 2 of them.
A double precision strike will drop a 400 damage alpha of whooping.
Rear shots on assaults? Forget it, just leg him or blow up his side torso right there kind of damage and get ready for an easy payday.
Only the 2x UAC-20 (4x 100 damage) King Crab can match that damage.
When it's moused-over in https://www.twitch.tv/videos/496641130 the displayed range says "Long" and while that's not 100% specific, it does inform a general range. AC/10s, LL, LPL that share the "Long" category and while it's not necessarily identical to those three, it is a fairly narrow window between "Standard" range of the ML/ERML and the "Extreme" range of the PPC/AC/5. All it can really be is the same as the three other Long range category or one hex step higher, as two steps higher puts it at the same values as Extreme, and one step down puts it as the same as the longer of the two weapons that use Standard.
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The damage worries are going to entirely depend on the heat curve. If it's high enough it may be that you only ever carry one of them and fire them every other round, in exactly the way that lights are currently best used. I'd suspect these things would also probably end up taking up plenty of extra slots to double down on the "these are for the light 'mechs, hands off".
Add those two together and what you'd see is a weapon that uses the light 'mechs specific strengths, speed and excess slots, to overcome its tonnage/damage constraints with some neat fluff and mechanics. You're pretty much going to need to do something like this to meet the stated aim of keeping light 'mechs relevant in this kind of game anyway (@EmptyPepsiCan's legitimate point that an additional strategy layer would still be a better way to do this withstanding: here's hoping it's on the cards for a future DLC/the next game).
So the most straightforward balancing mechanic is just to gate the tech till after we've left the lights phase of the game, presumably by sticking it behind a flashpoint. At that point the tech will put the light chassis' on competitive terms with the Medium and Heavies which is the tech's explicit goal.
Add those two together and what you'd see is a weapon that uses the light 'mechs specific strengths, speed and excess slots, to overcome its tonnage/damage constraints with some neat fluff and mechanics. You're pretty much going to need to do something like this to meet the stated aim of keeping light 'mechs relevant in this kind of game anyway (@EmptyPepsiCan's legitimate point that an additional strategy layer would still be a better way to do this withstanding: here's hoping it's on the cards for a future DLC/the next game).
So the most straightforward balancing mechanic is just to gate the tech till after we've left the lights phase of the game, presumably by sticking it behind a flashpoint. At that point the tech will put the light chassis' on competitive terms with the Medium and Heavies which is the tech's explicit goal.