CoC Mamluks: OP or not?

[Galaahd]

Yesterday I played my first game with the Mamluks and stopped after 150 years so it's still early for me to say anything conclusive. I want to play more first.

That said my IMPRESSION is that Paradox went overboard with buffing them. It was a walk in the park, the new system of succession offers no downside (actually, in terms of stability it's much better than most if not all other governments) and they are just so strong.

More over, they didn't seem to have any kind of disaster or meaningful negative event? Were you able to spot any? If that were the case I wouldn't get it.

Did Paradox only model the strengths of Mamluks and none of their weaknesses? Ottomans, Poland etc they all get quite nasty events and disasters which can cripple them. I seriously hope it's the same with the Mamluks.

What do you think?

 

[Protosszocker]

I just played them for 60 years by now, but i never got a bad Sultan (already had 6-7 all had nothing under 12 points if you add them up) yet. I made more and more of Arabia and the Lavante my Vasalls and intigrated them as they all love you, you have alot of good events, I feel they are really strong now, havent fought the Ottomans yet but I think I can get them down soon as my trade Income is really hight. So yeah dont know, I think it is good that Ottomans dont have the autowinin the islamic world anymore but still maybe mameluks are a bit too op, time will tell.

 

[TenshiN]

I did not play them but in my Rassids game, they got wrecked by earlygame Ethiopia, for crying out loud. Yeah, they get a lot of troops and money, but it seems that even some less-major AI can pull through now.

 

[Protosszocker]

I did not play them but in my Rassids game, they got wrecked by earlygame Ethiopia, for crying out loud. Yeah, they get a lot of troops and money, but it seems that even some less-major AI can pull through now.

dont think they are that strong as an AI but in the hands of an player they are really good, as they buffed the income of the nil delta by a lot (2 more high provinzes and a few low provinzes).

 

[TenshiN]

dont think they are that strong as an AI but in the hands of an player they are really good, as they buffed the income of the nil delta by a lot (2 more high provinzes and a few low provinzes).

Well, that is good then, as i am pretty sure they were something of a really major power, that is, until the Ottos handled 'em a new one. If the AI doesn't get overboard with them as it sometimes does as starts like Ming, then it is all good

 

[Protosszocker]

Well, that is good then, as i am pretty sure they were something of a really major power, that is, until the Ottos handled 'em a new one. If the AI doesn't get overboard with them as it sometimes does as starts like Ming, then it is all good

Yeah, weird is jsut that everyone in arabia, anatolia and the Levante loves them so much that they already try to become your vassal and you can intigrate one after one. This way you expand much faster than aggresive expansion would allow you (not that you cant do this at the same time as I did up the Nil to Athopia.

 

[makaramus]

dont think they are that strong as an AI but in the hands of an player they are really good, as they buffed the income of the nil delta by a lot (2 more high provinzes and a few low provinzes).

aka everynation? even byzantium can be considerep op since under hand of players its one of nations that can defeat ottoman very early game by losing no soldier(by blocking entire ottoman army to an island)

I mean whats important is ai mamluk not player mamluk player mamluk can do better than ottoman player maybe but ideas of ottoman is better so its forgiveable

also if player mamluk is op then we should forbid players from playing ottoman

 

[Galaahd]

Except that Byzantium for the player is very hard, while Mamluks seem to be a walk in the park.

I'm steamrolling everyone with minimum effort.

 

[TenshiN]

Except that Byzantium for the player is very hard, while Mamluks seem to be a walk in the park.

I'm steamrolling everyone with minimum effort.

You play a major power and complain that you steamroll the AI without any effort? Really?

 

[Sfan]

Because the Mamluks were not already a walk in the park last patch?

 

[Galaahd]

You play a major power and complain that you steamroll the AI without any effort? Really?

I complain that there doesn't seem to be any historical weakness modelled for them, only their strengths.

Poland has the political instability events and the great power of the Sejm comes back to bite you in the butt. Same with the Ottomans and the Janissary decadence. They can cripple your country. And it's the same with many countries which declined during the time period like the Mamluks historically did.

As far as I know the Mamluks have no disaster / no negative events to cripple them / make their decline possible.

The Mamluk form of government is meant to be plagued with factionalism and conflict between rival factions: what we have instead is the most stable form of government in the game, with the easiest succession, and by far the best rulers.

Granted, I might be mistaken or I might be missing something. But that's the impression I got so far.

 

[Protosszocker]

Yeah they just get positive effect after positive effec, for exampel their ruler system is sooo strong and instead of paying for strong rules like you have to with merchant republics yo ujst get them for free.

 

[Celdur]

People who complaint about AI being to easy while playing a major power should play Very Hard and stop whining.

 

[Galaahd]

People who complaint about AI being to easy while playing a major power should play Very Hard and stop whining.

Text understanding = 0.

It's not a thread about the AI. Read please before replying.

 

[Amadeu of Savoy]

In-game, shouldn't they start losing strength after Europeans interfere with trading from the Persian Gulf and India? Wash't that how it went in history?

The related diplo-annex in Arabia, Anatolia and Levant doesn't sound good from what I'm hearing...

 

[kacpe3]

I had more success with Manipur than Mamluks :/

 

[PhoenixG]

For my feeling, Mamluks is still the same as last patch. The new government is nice, but it does nothing for combat or such. They only thing it's better for Mamluks is that Arabia is richer.

 

[Rainbow Mirage]

I did not play them but in my Rassids game, they got wrecked by earlygame Ethiopia, for crying out loud. Yeah, they get a lot of troops and money, but it seems that even some less-major AI can pull through now.

So nothing changed? I see Ethiopia gang up on mamluks in 1.22 a lot when Ottomans attack.

 

[TenshiN]

So nothing changed? I see Ethiopia gang up on mamluks in 1.22 a lot when Ottomans attack.

Not really, they didn't need the Ottomans this time for some reason, especially considering that Mamluks are stronger than ever before now.
It actually was an other way around - Ethiopia have soundly thrashed the Mamluks and then the ottomans attacked

 

[Celdur]

Text understanding = 0.

It's not a thread about the AI. Read please before replying.

I don't think people that believe in the OP's premise even understand what is their real issue. And of course if they think certain country is not a challenge...