Coat of arms for Francia

[Effixel]

Hi,

as a frenchman, I really like the Empire of Francia. It fits with History as these territories have almost always been (Since Clovis) part of the Kingdom. However, I have to disagree with one thing: the coat of arms of the empire. It's ugly. I mean, I think it's ugly. My question is: Where did you developpers get it from? I don't remember having seen such colors while browsing through French History stuff.
However, something that comes up quite often in the history of the french Kingdom, along with the Capet CoA is the white flag (Actually, France is today a republic as in 1871, the Count of Chambord, who should have been king after the defeat of Napoléon III against the Prussian armies, didn't want to use the blue-white-red flag as the flag of the kingdom and wanted to use the white flag of the kings instead. the parliament refused and he never became king, and France never became a monarchy again). So here's my suggestion:

This, to me, is more representative of a French Empire than this weird pinky thing you came up with. (ok it's ugly too because it's badly photoshopped, but I know you can make it great), and I'll be happy to see it as the acutal flag of Francia.

However, if you can show me that the current CoA has any historical background, then I will accept it as the CoA of Francia

 

[Sneakyflaps]

I have to agree with Effixel, it shoud be this and i have no idea where you guys got the idea for the current one from.

 

[Yakdast]

I also wonder where did Paradox team find it. It would be nicer if it looked like Oriflamme though. Gives Francia more authentic, Carolingian kind of look.

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

What does the current one look like?

 

[Arko]

I also wonder where did Paradox team find it. It would be nicer if it looked like Oriflamme though. Gives Francia more authentic, Carolingian kind of look.

I've this one (blue and yellow) as replacement for e_france in my CoA mod.

 

[Yakdast]

What does the current one look like?

This. I've just realized these little figures are kind of flowers, it just that if zoomed out it looks like a dot or net pattern.

 

[Wezqu]

Its taken from Oriflamme of Charlemagne totally historical flag and those are flowers on it.

 

[Effixel]

This. I've just realized these little figures are kind of flowers, it just that if zoomed out it looks like a dot or net pattern.

View attachment 64015

Yup... that pretty...

 

[Arko]

Its taken from Oriflamme of Charlemagne totally historical flag and those are flowers on it.

historical flag for non historical empire

 

[Effixel]

historical flag for non historical empire

Well, the empire existed under Charlemagne.

So this thing is real... The Oriflamme of Saint Denis... Well the guy who invented it had a pretty poor taste in colours! Or maybe he was colorblind... Interestingly, when looking for "Oriflamme de Saint Denis" on google images, both versions - Paradox' and Yakdast's - appear in the results. Looks like it's two differrent versions of the same thing depending on the epoch, though I don't know which one was used when.

I guess I have to give up the idea of the white flag then (but still, it is ugly )

 

[Arko]

Well, the empire existed under Charlemagne.

the continuity of Charlemagne's empire is supposed to be the HRE. and it is how it is made ingame : Charlemagne is listed as emperor of HRE in game's history file.
but yes, the Oriflamme is real indeed.

 

[Empty86]

the continuity of Charlemagne's empire is supposed to be the HRE. and it is how it is made ingame : Charlemagne is listed as emperor of HRE in game's history file.

When they added the Empire of Francia, they should have changed the first HRE emperor to Otto I.

 

[Closet Skeleton]

When they added the Empire of Francia, they should have changed the first HRE emperor to Otto I.

No, because Charlamagne isn't Holy Roman Emperor because he was, but so that the regnal numbers, which do count the Carolingians, work. Charles V of Germany and I of Spain was only the second Holy Roman Emperor called Charles, but is always called Charles V because of Charlamagne and the last two carolingian Emperors. But the Charles' are after the last starting date so in game it only matters for:

The Emperor at the start of the game, Henry III, would only be Henry II if you discount Henry the Fowler. So Henry the Fowler gets to be Emperor Henry I despite his son being the true first Emperor.

Lothair III, Emperor from 1133-37 who counted Lothair of Middle Frankia (namesake of Lotharingia/Lorraine) as Lothair I.

+ any Emperor who comes up in normal gameplay named Charles, Lothair or Ludwig.

 

[Empty86]

No, because Charlamagne isn't Holy Roman Emperor because he was, but so that the regnal numbers, which do count the Carolingians, work. Charles V of Germany and I of Spain was only the second Holy Roman Emperor called Charles, but is always called Charles V because of Charlamagne and the last two carolingian Emperors. But the Charles' are after the last starting date so in game it only matters for:

The Emperor at the start of the game, Henry III, would only be Henry II if you discount Henry the Fowler. So Henry the Fowler gets to be Emperor Henry I despite his son being the true first Emperor.

Lothair III, Emperor from 1133-37 who counted Lothair of Middle Frankia (namesake of Lotharingia/Lorraine) as Lothair I.

+ any Emperor who comes up in normal gameplay named Charles, Lothair or Ludwig.

If it's impossible to add someone that already has a regnal number that's a valid reason to keep them in. I was just bothered with it because I see Charlemagne's realm as a completely different entity than the Holy Roman Empire.

 

[Effixel]

Yeah, things are made complicated by the fact that France and Germany used to be a single entity with one or several rulers leading it. I think Clovis is also considered as a German King in Germany (though I should ask about it) as well as in France. I believe the separation into two (in fact three) different entities happened in 843, when the Empire of Charlemagne was divided between his three grandsons: Charles having modern France, Ludwig having modern Germany, and Lothair having what's between, so basically Flanders, Lorraine (region's name coming from the guy's name, "Lothringen" in German) and north of Italy (plus Swiss, Liechtenstein etc.). Lothair had also the title of Emperor, and his two brothers united against him. As he died first, the two brothers then fought against each other for what was left in the middle. The battle lasted until... 1945.

However, Charlemagne can be considered both as Emperor of the HRE, as he was crowned as "Emperor of the Romans", and King of Francia, as he was ruling over the Frankish people. History's a mess sometimes...

 

[Ash_Crow]

the continuity of Charlemagne's empire is supposed to be the HRE.

Both France and the HRE are supposed to be the continuity of the Carolingian Empire, in medieval perception. It is clearly shown when Charlemagne is depicted in the Middle Ages, bearing a coat of arms that is
Parti de l'Empire et de France

Armorial Sammelband

Le Blason des Armoiries

BNF Ms. 12559

Ms Cod A45, Burgerbibliothek - Berne

etc.

I understand that the devs don't want to add an empire that is entirely out of the timeframe, but I'd love to see that coat of arms along with the title "Emperor of the Carolingian Empire" when looking at Charlemagne's portrait in the game.

 

[Tempestra]

However, something that comes up quite often in the history of the french Kingdom, along with the Capet CoA is the white flag (Actually, France is today a republic as in 1871, the Count of Chambord, who should have been king after the defeat of Napoléon III against the Prussian armies, didn't want to use the blue-white-red flag as the flag of the kingdom and wanted to use the white flag of the kings instead. the parliament refused and he never became king, and France never became a monarchy again). So here's my suggestion:

That flag is way, way, way too new to be associated with a Francian Empire - its associated with the Boubon family, who werent even Kings until well after the game period. The current one, since it represents the Oriflamme, is far more accurate.

 

[ZechsMerquise73]

This. I've just realized these little figures are kind of flowers, it just that if zoomed out it looks like a dot or net pattern.

View attachment 64015

Yeah, I've seen that in Hello Kitty.

 

[Sleight of Hand]

I also wonder where did Paradox team find it. It would be nicer if it looked like Oriflamme though. Gives Francia more authentic, Carolingian kind of look.

The top part of that (just the sun with its supporting parts) on a darker background would be pretty good.

 

[justin6477]

The top part of that (just the sun with its supporting parts) on a darker background would be pretty good.

Better yet, give that to House Karling for their COA.

Seriously, it's amazing that they have a generic COA while the Hohenzollerns have a unique one.