Coalitions: I Want To Solve This Now! Major Yet Simple Fix, Please Read!

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StatikShocker

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There are plenty of complaints about coalitions, we get it. There are still significant issues with the format of the war, and the spoils of it. But a major issue that discredits coalitions as a concept is the way AE spreads. It reaches nations that make no sense.

A quick example, if Spain has a colony in Northern Japan, and then takes 3 French provinces for a bunch of AE, Japan will get just about as much AE since they border them. Japan will join the coalition, and immediately use their nifty new Casus Belli to drag Europe into a massive war on their behalf.

I Have A Proposal!

Regions are already in the game, they have a mapmode. See



MY PROPOSAL IS:

AE can only spread to nations that have a border or sea border with the region where the attacker's capital is or where the defender's capital is.

FOR EXAMPLE:
If Castile attacks Aragon, it can get AE with Aragon, Granada, and Portugal within its own region; Morocco, Algiers, Tunisia, (and unfortunately Mamluks Songhai and Ethiopia, the regions could use some rebalancing) from a bordering region; and France and Brittany from another neighboring region.

Alternatively, if Castile attacks France, it could potentially give AE to all of the above, plus nations in regions bordering the region of France's capital (french region). This includes Burgundy, Italy, England, and the entire HRE (potentially).

Now these are worst case scenarios. If unified Spain eats half of France, Britain, Austria, and all of their minion regional neighbors can (should) join.

What does this change?

No matter how much Castile attacks France, they will not give AE to nations that make no sense, such as Russia, Sibir, Japan, and Inca. An obscene coalition can still form and smash the aggressor. This just ends the silliness!

If Castille attacks a huge swath of French land in Indonesia, it can give AE to nations with capitals in/bordering Indonesia (such as Majapahit) as well as with their own region (Aragon Portugal Granada Navarra) and Neighboring regions (France, Morocco, minors). However! Because of my modification, it will not give AE with Italy, HRE, or England (because it shouldn't!!!) since the land was taken from France in a region where France's capital is not located.

Note: I tie this mechanic into capitals to prevent a Castillian attack on France from upsetting, say Inca, just because Castile has a colony in South America. If this was based simply on borders and not on region where capitals are located, the silliness would continue. Its vital to this mechanic.

So?!? What do you think? I assume Paradox isn't reading every thread about AE right now, reasonably so. I wish to carry a critical conversation here, something that will get their attention. Can this be exploited? Tell me, and lets figure out how to fix it. Thank you.
 

aitaituo

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You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how AE is generated. If someone with Hokkaido takes three provinces from France, Japan most certainly will not get the same amount of AE as France.
 

StatikShocker

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You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how AE is generated. If someone with Hokkaido takes three provinces from France, Japan most certainly will not get the same amount of AE as France.

No, I'm afraid I have it quite figured out. It leaks in stupid way... if you get AE with Portugal, it will spill into all nations that border Portugal anywhere on earth.
http://i.imgur.com/Na8mmRD.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KpdVQyi.jpg
 

TheMeInTeam

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You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how AE is generated. If someone with Hokkaido takes three provinces from France, Japan most certainly will not get the same amount of AE as France.

The range check isn't nearly as important as religion + culture. Exact religion & culture get the most, religious group + culture group being the same gets some, but less.

Now, Japan to France is of course long enough to avoid trouble. Sweden to Portugal is not, in terms of range check.
 

Kraxis

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Oh that one is golden!

"My Lord Shogun! The Portuguese gaijin have a mighty enemy, it would be auspicious to take them down."
"So it shall be done. I stall go ask the Emperor for his blessing for this honourable venture. Whom shall I request we wage war upon?"
"Some other gaijin people called 'The Ottomans'. We are not yet entirely sure where they live. But we know for a fact that many other gaijin would support us in this. We cannot fail my Lord."
"Ehm... I... yeah. Do we have enough of these 'Cogs' I hear so much about?"
"It does not matter, the Divine Wind shall carry us."
 

StatikShocker

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Oh that one is golden!

"My Lord Shogun! The Portuguese gaijin have a mighty enemy, it would be auspicious to take them down."
"So it shall be done. I stall go ask the Emperor for his blessing for this honourable venture. Whom shall I request we wage war upon?"
"Some other gaijin people called 'The Ottomans'. We are not yet entirely sure where they live. But we know for a fact that many other gaijin would support us in this. We cannot fail my Lord."
"Ehm... I... yeah. Do we have enough of these 'Cogs' I hear so much about?"
"It does not matter, the Divine Wind shall carry us."

I'd like to hear that conversation after they're told that russia will be taking over the war for them and calling their allies as well.
 

Kraxis

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I'd like to hear that conversation after they're told that russia will be taking over the war for them and calling their allies as well.
"Grave tidings my Lord! The perfidious Russians have assumed control of our most sacred war against The Ottomans!"
"Impossibru! We are our own masters! We shall wage war on our own!"
"My Lord. The Russians know where The Ottomans live, and they have offered to let our armies march through their lands. They also know the other gaijin in this 'Coarrition'. It would not be proper if we were to attack them instead of these unknown Ottomans. We need the Russians."
"Hrmpf! I suppose it is a small cost to bear. Set our Divine army on a path to Russia. Launch the Ten Thousand Ship Fleet to carry our army..."
"My Lord, we have three Cogs the Portuguese so kindly sold us last winter."
"Oh for the love of Amaterasu! Just go with what we have!"
 

aitaituo

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I think all complaint threads should be derailed with folksily racist one act plays from now on.
 

RadRussian

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I suggested the exact same thing a few days ago, tho it was mostly ignored.
I want to swear that I've read somewhere in patch notes or threads started by devs that in 1.5 AE will not be as high as in 1.3.2 and that distant countries will be getting much less AE from your actions.
 

gajop

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Well, are those screens from 1.5? I think not.
AE can only spread to nations that have a border or sea border with the region where the attacker's capital is or where the defender's capital is.
Seems bad to me. Why would Sweden get agitated that Russia is conquering Manchu?
The way it currently works seems OK to me - although I would put even more importance on proximity of the conquered nation's provinces rather than culture/religion. I found it hilarious Bosnia was entering a coalition against me (Russia) for conquering Novgorod & nearby Russian minors. At least 2 large nations were in between us.
PS: Some people mentioned that you create 50% more AE in hard in comparison to normal? If so, maybe you guys shouldn't be playing on hard if you can't handle all that AE? (I'm not saying that coalitions work great, but if AE is your issue..)
 

Beagá

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Because Russia will get the resources from the East to spank Sweden later?

Similarly the OP´s example is AWFUL. Spain got 3 provinces from Japan. Spain is also being agressive in Europe. Why the HELL Japan shouldn´t join the coalition? Should it sit quiet like a dog and wait to be devoured later?

I´m not seeing any weird behavior in coalitions. Got surrounded by a Hungary + Áustria + Milan coalition in my Venice game, just the way it should be. Nothing bizarre so far.
 

xyra

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So you suggest, that once you are big enough (aka you own the entire region + a little bit more of your capital) only the region of the defender matters.

So while you are small you have more enemies in the coalition then if you are big???
 

aitaituo

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I would like to second the question of what version OP is playing. I haven't seen coalitions like that since 1.2/3.

So you suggest, that once you are big enough (aka you own the entire region + a little bit more of your capital) only the region of the defender matters.

So while you are small you have more enemies in the coalition then if you are big???

Not to mention that regions are primarily there for mission\event triggers, not because they're logical or natural boundaries for expansion. That's why a huge chunk of coastal Asia is in the East Asian Trade Port Region, why Europe has far more regions than anywhere else, and why many regions have significant overlap. To make this idea work, coalition regions would have to be added, like colonial regions were added for CoP.
 

gajop

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Because Russia will get the resources from the East to spank Sweden later?

Similarly the OP´s example is AWFUL. Spain got 3 provinces from Japan. Spain is also being agressive in Europe. Why the HELL Japan shouldn´t join the coalition? Should it sit quiet like a dog and wait to be devoured later?

I´m not seeing any weird behavior in coalitions. Got surrounded by a Hungary + Áustria + Milan coalition in my Venice game, just the way it should be. Nothing bizarre so far.
Because it's stupid, and can be gamed easily, especially as you grow. I can separate myself with other nations with vassals, I can put my capital in a region where I won't be getting any AE (e.g. Western Siberia when I grow enough as Russia, or Turkey region with Ottomans), and so on.

AE should be hitting nations harder where I expand, and not where I'm not aggressing. This is how it was in history, nations would form "coalitions" based on _where_ their targets expanded, which seems reasonable. Nations allying against someone growing big shouldn't always be due to AE, but rather due to common defensive goals - I would f.e. be totally OK if greater powers formed coalitions against you when you grow really big, regardless of distance.