Could someone explain the Coalition Logic to me,as I don't understand it. As Brandenburg,after taking my core Neumark from the Teutonic Empire, I then declared war On Pomerania and took 2 provinces on them,which I had claims on,and vassalized them as well. Apparently 2 provinces was enough that half the HRE then saw me as a threat and banded against me. I don't understand why it came about,as half of them were no-where near me,and weren't affected in the least by this,so AE shouldn't have been a problem. Plus I was allied to the HRE emperor and Poland,which should have affected this,as going to war with Austria and Poland which I was allied to,and had a PU with Lithuania,do they want to be crushed,or they would have been,if the AI hadn't peaced out at a stupid time..
Coalition Logic
- Thread starter Michaelp
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vassalizing also causes AE. So you took 3 provinces. AE in the HRE is doubled, so you took about 20*2 40 Basetax worth of AE. you could see the AE in diplo screen and you would have seen the AE values. you will have atleast 40+ with most neighbours
Assuming you weren't discovered fabricating your claims on at least one of those Pommeranian provinces (and used the mission for capturing hinterpommen), you still took 2 decently sized provinces in a war AND vassalized the remaining one. Vassalizing their capital would have been done at 100% AE, no discount, and it's a highly aggressive act. That's 3 provinces you took control of - more than enough for a small coalition. You should have settled for your two claimed provinces.
AE in central Europe is retard huge, so basically the only option you have is either have many large allies to prevent the coalition from firing off, or only take one province every 50 years.
AE decreases with distance, but not by much. In general, all countries of the same culture and religion to the country you take land from will take AE, and any country in the HRE has doubled AE (I think, may be tripled).
There's no point taking two provinces and vassalising the remaining OPM. Just full vassalise them next time, saves admin points.
There's no point taking two provinces and vassalising the remaining OPM. Just full vassalise them next time, saves admin points.
That would be even worse for AE. What's the point in saving admin points if you have to spend 10 years at peace because of the huge coalition you just created?
Snipping away land at a slower pace can lead to greater gains over chomping down a huge bite in one go.
You get a discount for having claim. Vassalising AE is the same as taking province without a claim on it.
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I thought it was 2AE without claim and 1.5AE with claim to conquer, and vassalisation was 1.5AE per province claim or no claim. Perhaps it's changed.
I have another question regarding coalition logic (sorry for stealing the thunder but didn't thought it necessary to create a new topic for this question).
When does coalitions actually get called to war?
Initially I thought that if there was a peace treaty in place, they wouldn't join the war, but I think that happened to me. And the countries from the coalition didn't seem to get any stab hit for breaking the truce.
Secondly, if you attack country A, which is allied to B, whom is in a coalition against you, do the coalition get called into the fight?
Hope someone can clarify this for me!
When does coalitions actually get called to war?
Initially I thought that if there was a peace treaty in place, they wouldn't join the war, but I think that happened to me. And the countries from the coalition didn't seem to get any stab hit for breaking the truce.
Secondly, if you attack country A, which is allied to B, whom is in a coalition against you, do the coalition get called into the fight?
Hope someone can clarify this for me!
A coalition war must meet 2 criteria: there must be at least 3 nations in the coalition, and they must think they can win. The "think they can win" is a simple army comparison. I *believe* it's the same comparison used for diplo modifies, so basically it's total # of troops, the moral and various combat modifiers of you and your allies vs them and their allies. Note that navies are not factored into the equation; so if you're England, go ahead and AE all you want. They can never touch you because they can never land troops on you <3
Also, you second question: Yes, if you attack someone not in the coalition, but they are allied with someone in the coalition; the entire coalition will fire off. Plus coalitions ignore truces and never take a stab hit.
Also, you second question: Yes, if you attack someone not in the coalition, but they are allied with someone in the coalition; the entire coalition will fire off. Plus coalitions ignore truces and never take a stab hit.
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Coalition wars do not happen if you declare on non members, even if members honor a defensive call there.
Coalitions can no longer exist alongside truces.
What I hate is when the coalition calls additional allies into war. For instance I had a Coalition consisting of Pomerania,Anhalt and Breman against me,which I could easily defeat with help,but when they called Poland into the war, I quit the game at that point as the terms they wanted for ending the war were ridiculous. On that note,is there any other way of reducing the AE taken besides the Influence idea group? Or is it just a matter of waiting it out until it gradually goes away?
If you have a big ally (France is common for Brandenburg start) coalitions will be more hesitant to pull the trigger on you.
I am pretty sure AE scales with basetax as of 1.8 - so there's no set AE per province now, only AE pr. basetax. Unfortunately, I cannot remember what it is.
1. Allies get much less AE than anybody else, so use that.
2. Influence and diplomatic both have -AE impact ideas.
3. Some CBs have reduced AE (overseas expansion, colonial conquest, holy war, imperialism, tribal feud, tribal conquest)
4. Humanism has BROT, and having big overextension tends to give you a mission where coring it all gives you a skill 3 diplomat (more BROT). High prestige gives even more BROT; it's not too much of a reach to nearly double your AE decay with high prestige and humanism.
Of course, if you're expanding quickly nothing helps you ultimately, even though policies can also reduce AE impact. At some point, the difference between 120 AE and 300 AE isn't meaningful. It all goes away if you annex them...though sometimes you get a bug where they keep it when they come back not usually.
Just trucebreak/DOW/noCB into any possible candidate for a coalition and make everyone of his allies cobiligerent. Yes, you get AE to the point where diplomacy with anyone except your allies is futile. Coalitions will however never form and you can take everything you want instead of cores/claims. Rinse repeat.
Only when you're ready to keep pace. If you can't keep up, that ends in a spectacularly ruinous dogpile you won't recover from <3.
Usually it's not necessary to break truce though; doing so is expensive in income/monarch points (even boosting stab once each time is annoying), fighting rebels, WE or buying it down, and so forth. If you've religious, diplomatic, aristocratic and trading in wine knock yourself out, but most of the time it's not worth it.
The purpose of a coalition is to punish nations who have aggressively expanded without any regard for an actual balance of power. Coalitions are best used against 1-3 province nations who have taken 1-3 regions and are caught repeatedly fabricating claims, because they really truly need to be stopped. A coalition actually defeating its target and enforcing a heavy list of demands also does nothing to change the opinion of its members towards the now-humbled target, fortunately, so it is a useful way for major nations to justify removing these petulant twerps from the map in a second coalition over a decade after they'd been reduced to weaker than they were before it all began, because only a few dozen points of aggressive expansion actually decayed in that time, and again, nobody actually cares about balance of power.
It is also a situational mechanic to allow a player to both draw enemies into a war without their allies but still as co-belligerents by declaring on a different coalition member, and/or to allow a player to quickly occupy a very small coalition member (ideally 1-2 provinces max) for 100% warscare - useful for forcing a really long truce timer with a significantly overpowered member or even taking land off a huge nation you'd never dream of winning a war with outright if you move and siege quickly!
It is also a situational mechanic to allow a player to both draw enemies into a war without their allies but still as co-belligerents by declaring on a different coalition member, and/or to allow a player to quickly occupy a very small coalition member (ideally 1-2 provinces max) for 100% warscare - useful for forcing a really long truce timer with a significantly overpowered member or even taking land off a huge nation you'd never dream of winning a war with outright if you move and siege quickly!