Closing of Straits

[Shadow Knight]

I do not know if this is possible for the engine to accomplish, however it would be nice if neutral nations could close important straits to any warships other than their own. Namely this refers to the Bosporus and the Denmark Straits.

Here is what I would like to see:

A diplomatic option for any country who 'owns' those straits (I suppose other important straits could be included such as the Suez and Panama canals.), by that I mean controls Copenhagen and Istanbul, can issue a 'global command' (I can't think of what else to cal it) closing off the straits to any warships of countries currently at war (Denmark did this in WWI so as to keep the Germans from invading them to close the straits to the British--at least that is my understanding of it. Also Turkey closed the Bosporus to all sides during WWII--again that is how I understand it.). This diplomatic option would still allow transport shipping to continue of course (Hey they could get tax money from it now that cash is included as a resource. ).

One other thing I just thought of. The straights should be difficult for enemy ships to get through if the owner is at war with another power. For example, Denmark is at war with Germany. Now if Germany tries to move its Baltic fleet through the straits to the North Sea before they occupy Copenhagen this should be difficult to do (i.e. even if Denmark doesn't have a fleet there the German fleet should still suffer damage for running the gauntlet so to speak.).


Again I don't know how feasible this is (engine wise, or if it is really wanted), but I think it would be a nice feature.

 

[Sir Humphrey]

Pretty good idea, don't know if its possible though.

 

[unmerged(33151)]

hey i remember in hoi 1 that this was a feature, sort of

i remember not being able to go through the dardanelles without getting military access from turkey, and likewise for the suez canal

try firing up your hoi and check if im wrong, but i think this is partly what youre talking about

and regarding the strait of denmark (im not sure about the geographical name ), wouldnt it be too wide to block off permanently?

i dont know, something to think about i guess

 

[Mork]

hey i remember in hoi 1 that this was a feature, sort of

i remember not being able to go through the dardanelles without getting military access from turkey, and likewise for the suez canal

try firing up your hoi and check if im wrong, but i think this is partly what youre talking about

and regarding the strait of denmark (im not sure about the geographical name ), wouldnt it be too wide to block off permanently?

i dont know, something to think about i guess

Danish name: Øresund, though the strait of Storebelt could be used too, the problem is that it's shallow, too shallow most places, and you would probably need a native sailor (los?).

You can see across both straits, and Øresund you can swim across (which was done doing WWII once or twice, escaping Jews, I think at least one drowned). If you'd place a cannon on one side of Øresund, you could damage/destroy all ships going through (if you can hit ).

The straits that one are able to close in HOI: Øresund, Bosperus, Suez, Panama and Gibraltar.
You have to control one of either Sealand/Skåne, Istanbul, Suez, Panama and Gibraltar/theothersideofthestrait .

What the admiral of the fleet is surgesting is that a neutral country could lock their strait, which isn't in HOI.

I like it, it gives more reason to befriend neutrals and neutrals will be more fun to play, especially in MP.

 

[King Jary]

I like the idea to close the straits. Also, Øresund (Öresund for me) has been closed many times, espesialy by Denmark to prevent swedish shiping in war, and in peace swedish ships payed ALOT of money to get throug. Even older cannons culd fire a good way in over Øresund (if not all the way over).

I live outside Helsingborg (Sweden), by the narroest part of the sund, and on the other side is the city of HelsingØr (Denmark). Bothe citys were built by denmark to control Øresund. Im not sure but I think that "hels" means throught/neck.

 

[Zorgoth]

Maybe give the option to "run the strait", with some concequences:
1. damage to the ships for mines, coastal defenses, hitting sand bars, etc.
2. Option for the violated country to declare war, or at least reduction in relations between the two countries.
3. increase in war entry for major powers

 

[GrimReaper]

Good idea. If you can close straits as a neutral; that makes it even more necessary to control straits.

EDIT: subs can still move through all the straits AFAIK, but IMHO this should not be possible for the Panama Canal; I mean its pretty hard to sneak through with all these locks (nine I think)

 

[unmerged(33238)]

Lets say the danes have mined their straits and Germany has 87 ships an wants to drive trough. That would take a long time with mine destroyers before any ships wuold be allowed throug. You just dont send your fleet against mines....

 

[teddybbeer]

in '30s Estonian and Finnish military leaders developed plan how to seal Soviet Baltic Fleet to finnish gulf and later during the war finns and germans used the same plan very successfully against Soviet navy, quaranteering safe seatransport between Finland and Germay

 

[unmerged(20852)]

I would hope that if your country controls a strait or canal that you can choose a diplomatic option to close that passage to a country you are not at war with. I do like the option of 'running a strait' with a good chance of recieving damage. I would like to have the option of conducting a sea battle in a port with similiar consequences. I hope that the Kiel Canal is in the game so that the Germans can freely travel between the North Sea and the Baltic Sea without having to worry about what the Danes or the Swedes or the Norwegians have done to inhibit the German fleet moving.

 

[Mork]

I like the idea to close the straits. Also, Øresund (Öresund for me) has been closed many times, espesialy by Denmark to prevent swedish shiping in war, and in peace swedish ships payed ALOT of money to get throug. Even older cannons culd fire a good way in over Øresund (if not all the way over).

I live outside Helsingborg (Sweden), by the narroest part of the sund, and on the other side is the city of HelsingØr (Denmark). Bothe citys were built by denmark to control Øresund. Im not sure but I think that "hels" means throught/neck.

Yep, yep.It was also the main reason for many of the Danish/Swedish wars (and why Sweden were supported by other nations).

BTW "hals" means neck, pretty darn close.

 

[unmerged(10750)]

I hope that the Kiel Canal will be in HoI2.

edit: Someone already suggested that, I see. I'll back them up with that wish.

 

[TheDarkside]

Good idea. If you can close straits as a neutral; that makes it even more necessary to control straits.

EDIT: subs can still move through all the straits AFAIK, but IMHO this should not be possible for the Panama Canal; I mean its pretty hard to sneak through with all these locks (nine I think)

Hmm, I would think you cannot sneak a sub through the Suez canal either. It's too shallow and narrow- any guard standing at a post along the canal should easily spot the sub under water. You would need something like the Gibralter strait (ever watch Das Boot? )

BTW Panama canal has 12 locks

 

[TheDarkside]

I hope that the Kiel Canal will be in HoI2.

edit: Someone already suggested that, I see. I'll back them up with that wish.

Kiel Canal is extremely important and really should be in the game. Doing a quick search I found that Kiel Canal has more ship traffic than the panama canal (stats from this site this site )

The Kiel canal's creation date is also a non-issue, since it was built in 1895. It's a definite must for HoI2 !

 

[unmerged(27537)]

I like the idea of being able to close sea straits, because if naval combat in HOI 2 gets as important as i hope it will, controlling these straits will be very important for all the major powers.

I hope that the Kiel Canal (aka Nord-Ostsee or Kaiser-Wilhelm Kanal) will be included too, because it was very important for the Kriegsmarine in WWII.

 

[The historian]

I agree you should be able to close the straits if you control them of course some people might not take it to kindly and dow you but hey it's your risk.

 

[GrimReaper]

Hmm, I would think you cannot sneak a sub through the Suez canal either. It's too shallow and narrow- any guard standing at a post along the canal should easily spot the sub under water. You would need something like the Gibralter strait (ever watch Das Boot? )

BTW Panama canal has 12 locks

Suez is narrow to, yes. As is the Dardanelles (any strait left now? ).

Yes, occasionally I watch Das Boot; and everytime I go claustrophobic

 

[vertinox]

Well it really would depend on the straight... Getting a ship snuck through the Suez or Panama would be basically impossible, but subs did pass through Gibralter without detection on occasion and Germany even got a sub or two in the Black Sea.

Then there is the situation of the disguised raider surface ships like the Penguin who raided forces in the Indian Ocean for quite some time without detection.

 

[GrimReaper]

Well it really would depend on the straight... Getting a ship snuck through the Suez or Panama would be basically impossible, but subs did pass through Gibralter without detection on occasion and Germany even got a sub or two in the Black Sea.

Then there is the situation of the disguised raider surface ships like the Penguin who raided forces in the Indian Ocean for quite some time without detection.

Ok, but how did those subs get into the Black Sea? Did they travel on the surface, saluting the harbour master on the way? Or did they sneak in, submerged without letting Turkey know about it at all?

Please dont get me wrong, I just want to clarify things