Clerks need something

[Millbot]

Also dawns on me, while I advocate for the idea that part of the megacorp playstyle should be that their mechanics make clerks a more attractive job than say other workers jobs. That doesn't apply to their branch offices and with jobs being too plentiful, that begs the question of whether their branch offices should just have the total jobs they provide reduced or have the jobs removed altogether.

I think at the very list any branch buildings that add clerks probably should have the clerks jobs removed and just have those buildings straight up provide the same amount of trade value and amenities that their clerk jobs provided.

Maybe even go with the wild idea that each building and the branch office boost clerk output.

I have to bring this up because there are just too many jobs still and right now megacorp buildings seem to play against the intended design. For non-criminal empires, they current setup makes them into a harmful presence when they are suppose to be a net gain. Sure for criminal syndicate it makes them bigger parasites, but I don't think trapping pops in useless clerk jobs fits the theme.

 

[Brael]

You can buff them without making them eclipse the other jobs.. Clerks should be slightly weaker than other jobs because city districts give more housing & building slots, while farms, mines, and energy districts only give the jobs and 2 housing. Maybe trade value value should scale with the productivity of nearby planets, or just buff their amenities to cement them as a support profession when you don't want to spend building slots on theatres.

Even then, the pop itself is worth a lot more than the building in most cases. Inefficient jobs have little incentive to be run. If clerks provided a resource that weren’t available elsewhere they would have more value. But as is there’s just not much point to the job.

 

[General Retreat]

I have to bring this up because there are just too many jobs still and right now megacorp buildings seem to play against the intended design. For non-criminal empires, they current setup makes them into a harmful presence when they are suppose to be a net gain. Sure for criminal syndicate it makes them bigger parasites, but I don't think trapping pops in useless clerk jobs fits the theme.

It'd make sense if buildings directly provided trade value in the same way syndicate buildings do. Alternately, each BO building could add a single merchant, with +4 merchants from a fully established BO being a major boon for the host empire. Potentially the commercial forum could give 2 merchants, seeing as they're currently unique in providing 1.

 

[GnoSIS]

Even then, the pop itself is worth a lot more than the building in most cases. Inefficient jobs have little incentive to be run. If clerks provided a resource that weren’t available elsewhere they would have more value. But as is there’s just not much point to the job.

So very true, this all boils down to the opportunity cost of a population unit.

And if unemployment is to be a problem/thing in the game, then they should raise the costs of districts and buildings by x10 - And then watch the forums explode with complaints. Because that high tech factory that provides jobs should cost way more than it currently does both in stellaris and in any universe.

 

[grommile]

Because that high tech factory that provides jobs

A really high-tech factory doesn't provide many jobs, because it has machines doing the work and fancier machines doing the basic supervision of the work.

 

[GnoSIS]

A really high-tech factory doesn't provide many jobs, because it has machines doing the work and fancier machines doing the basic supervision of the work.

Correct, you need to build even more and larger factories to have jobs. And if you have robots synths, tough luck - if the buildings and districts were x10 expensive.

Right now the system is centered around pop scarcity not resource scarcity, so you can always overbuild jobs.

 

[Shaeliss]

As someone whom is often looking into the many, many Stellaris mods, there are many mods which include a "Private Research" Trade Policy, which turns Trade Value into Research... I echo the sentiment that if Trade (roughly) = Money (and CG and/or Unity) then Trade is only as useful as the EC (and Unity and/or CG) you get out of it, and in most situations it's a losing battle, that is not helped by the fact practically every other source actually scales, unlike trade jobs (clerks just get hit worst by it, but this also hits Merchants). Now, turning Trade into another resource merely displaces the problem towards sources of said resources (i.e. you're comparing Clerks to Researchers/Utopian Abundance unemployed pops instead of comparing them to Technicians), it doesn't solve it...

Now, if Trade did something unique, and actually scaled, having tech buff trade output the way practically every other resource has, then it may have a niche.

Speaking of Trade, Trade is an odd resources that ties with the galactic game, at least in terms of flavor... You have Commercial Pacts, you have an entire GC resolution tree devoted to Trade, you have the Galactic Market, and Xenophiles get Trade Value buffs... Maybe Trade should do something special relating to other empires and diplomacy? I don't know what that should be, but I could see a niche there, with Trade allowing some form of diplomatic expansion, which could provide an alternative to simply "conquering everything in sight". That could be it's niche, and by extension a niche for Trade jobs.

 

[currylambchop]

As someone whom is often looking into the many, many Stellaris mods, there are many mods which include a "Private Research" Trade Policy, which turns Trade Value into Research... I echo the sentiment that if Trade (roughly) = Money (and CG and/or Unity) then Trade is only as useful as the EC (and Unity and/or CG) you get out of it, and in most situations it's a losing battle, that is not helped by the fact practically every other source actually scales, unlike trade jobs (clerks just get hit worst by it, but this also hits Merchants). Now, turning Trade into another resource merely displaces the problem towards sources of said resources (i.e. you're comparing Clerks to Researchers/Utopian Abundance unemployed pops instead of comparing them to Technicians), it doesn't solve it...

Now, if Trade did something unique, and actually scaled, having tech buff trade output the way practically every other resource has, then it may have a niche.

Speaking of Trade, Trade is an odd resources that ties with the galactic game, at least in terms of flavor... You have Commercial Pacts, you have an entire GC resolution tree devoted to Trade, you have the Galactic Market, and Xenophiles get Trade Value buffs... Maybe Trade should do something special relating to other empires and diplomacy? I don't know what that should be, but I could see a niche there, with Trade allowing some form of diplomatic expansion, which could provide an alternative to simply "conquering everything in sight". That could be it's niche, and by extension a niche for Trade jobs.

dude necropost much?

 

[Shaeliss]

dude necropost much?

Sorry, I was tired, decided to look up the "Clerks debate" that seem to be an eternal recurrence on any Stellaris focused discussion board, and I didn't notice the date. Still, considering that this is a topic that keeps coming back since I have seen it come back every couple of months and the discussion turning out more or less the same way... I've been there for almost a year, and I've seen it come up every couple of months or so, and roughly the same arguments are proposed each and every time. The exact same discussion with the exact same points took place a year ago, 10 months ago, 8 months ago, and so on, and as such it's easy to forget the dates since that's pretty much the only thing that changes in that discussion.

Literally everything else is a constant.

 

[Darklight731]

A trade-focus is very good right now, especially with the new Mercantile tradition tree. I am getting the majority of my unity from trade, and about half of my energy from it. I do agree that they could use some repeatable bonus, but they are good even as they are now.

 

[evilcat]

I wish that one of Tradition (Harmony?) was giving a clerk the perk "+1 Ammenity" (up to 3).
I wish that there was a technology line (society) +10% TV from pops.
Maybe some edict?
New building "Stock Exchange" 1 per planet which would improve output of clerks on planet. (similar to Ministry of Industry)
There could be a trade policy "Patent Trading" which allows to trade TV into some tech.

Having ammenity from workers is actually nice if you run slaver empire.
And the clerk utility is limited by TV not being a resource but rather some modifier, so we cant spec in it same way as energy.

 

[Bezborg]

A really high-tech factory doesn't provide many jobs, because it has machines doing the work and fancier machines doing the basic supervision of the work.

How true. The whole Stellaris job system is very archaic

Ugh, if only districts and buildings change "percentages" oh how the general planetary population is used/applied, and not generate empty boxes/slots that slot-plug pops fill in. Maybe next time.

 

[currylambchop]

Sorry, I was tired, decided to look up the "Clerks debate" that seem to be an eternal recurrence on any Stellaris focused discussion board, and I didn't notice the date. Still, considering that this is a topic that keeps coming back since I have seen it come back every couple of months and the discussion turning out more or less the same way... I've been there for almost a year, and I've seen it come up every couple of months or so, and roughly the same arguments are proposed each and every time. The exact same discussion with the exact same points took place a year ago, 10 months ago, 8 months ago, and so on, and as such it's easy to forget the dates since that's pretty much the only thing that changes in that discussion.

Literally everything else is a constant.

Clerks are strong now, you can be swimming in energy, consumer goods and unity if you’re in a trade league.

 

[MrFreake_PDX]

The last reply before Saturday was 6 months ago. If you want to discuss clerks, please start a new thread.

Thanks!