OK. Maybe not, but how is France able to pass by my fort? Also he advanced on tech at 40% ahead of time...he's on 12 while everyone else is on 11. Something to do with that maybe?
Clearly Hacking AI
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Watch Reman's video on topic of forts on youtube, it really helped me understand the mechanics behind forts.
As for miltech check French ruler stats, if he's 6 in mil that would explain as sometimes I am buying miltech even with 80% penalty. But the miltech advantage does not provide any interference with forts.
As for miltech check French ruler stats, if he's 6 in mil that would explain as sometimes I am buying miltech even with 80% penalty. But the miltech advantage does not provide any interference with forts.
I admit it! I hacked your game and am controlling France.
More seriously, I'd guess their return province is the sea-zone. Google for Reman's Paradox fort video. It's great.
As to the 40% ahead of time penalty, it's a soft cap like many other things in this game.
More seriously, I'd guess their return province is the sea-zone. Google for Reman's Paradox fort video. It's great.
As to the 40% ahead of time penalty, it's a soft cap like many other things in this game.
40% only means it costs 840, or less if he has ideas. France probably has a mil3 advisor, that's not shocking. Most majors tech up ahead of time.
As for ZoC we would need more details, and especially the fort map to see where ZoC exert which depends on the war status of Provence for instance.
As for ZoC we would need more details, and especially the fort map to see where ZoC exert which depends on the war status of Provence for instance.
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Forts are still very confusing. Take this example. I have no idea what's going on here.
Also, forts over straits also cause ZOC too, which makes absolutely no sense in this situation:
The AI isn't cheating on the path, it just has a better understanding of it. Obviously Holsteins stack wouldn't sit in Goinge if it knew I could get to them.
Also, forts over straits also cause ZOC too, which makes absolutely no sense in this situation:
The AI isn't cheating on the path, it just has a better understanding of it. Obviously Holsteins stack wouldn't sit in Goinge if it knew I could get to them.
if i remember correctly the AI does cheat ZOC or atleast it used to and will actively ignore your forts depending on how they are set up which is why forts are or were basically useless everywhere but your capitol
Albenga looks to be in the ZOC of Cuneo's fort, he shouldn't be able to move to Genoa.
Unless he came from there, or another parameter changed between when he came to Nice and when he leaves it. You can't just jump at conclusions like that...
Zone of control works quite a lot differently than one might expect. There are a few usual regions causing weird results. And, believe it or not, the "cheating" you often see at the hands of the AI, can often be done by players as well. Making these instances of exploits instead of cheating.
In the case of forts allowing movements when you think it shouldn't:
Your return province is in an advantageous location, allowing you to move through every adjacent province of it. A common example of this is when unloading from a ship, as you can then march across the coastline past all forts.
Zone of control blocks movement based on return province, forts are not currently the main deciding factor of where you can move. Forts merely provide ZoC while having some special rules in their own province.
(might be the case of OP): Occupied forts do not count as your own forts, and occupied adjacent territory is not the same as owned adjacent territory. I don't think the fort in Cuneo would block access to Albenga.
(very normal problem): If you manage to put your army on route somewhere, the validity of the path will not be recalculated until arrival. The AI and some players sometimes abuses this to ignore forts that were not initially activated.
In the case of forts blocking when you think it shouldn't:
Your return province (important here) is nonexistent or in an odd position, meaning you have no way to enter zone of control. Can sometimes be broken by consolidating armies. You can actually move quite far through ZoC depending on your return province, so the cause might be difficult to see based on the result. I rarely see a return province in pictures of armies that are stuck.
You might have put them on a moving order before the fort activated, and therefor not the ZoC.
Just watch Reman's Paradox's video about the topic. It is very easy to consider past iterations of rules or your own mental interpretations as fact, when they are in fact not. Zone of control is slightly complicated and messed up, but
In the case of forts allowing movements when you think it shouldn't:
Your return province is in an advantageous location, allowing you to move through every adjacent province of it. A common example of this is when unloading from a ship, as you can then march across the coastline past all forts.
Zone of control blocks movement based on return province, forts are not currently the main deciding factor of where you can move. Forts merely provide ZoC while having some special rules in their own province.
(might be the case of OP): Occupied forts do not count as your own forts, and occupied adjacent territory is not the same as owned adjacent territory. I don't think the fort in Cuneo would block access to Albenga.
(very normal problem): If you manage to put your army on route somewhere, the validity of the path will not be recalculated until arrival. The AI and some players sometimes abuses this to ignore forts that were not initially activated.
In the case of forts blocking when you think it shouldn't:
Your return province (important here) is nonexistent or in an odd position, meaning you have no way to enter zone of control. Can sometimes be broken by consolidating armies. You can actually move quite far through ZoC depending on your return province, so the cause might be difficult to see based on the result. I rarely see a return province in pictures of armies that are stuck.
You might have put them on a moving order before the fort activated, and therefor not the ZoC.
Just watch Reman's Paradox's video about the topic. It is very easy to consider past iterations of rules or your own mental interpretations as fact, when they are in fact not. Zone of control is slightly complicated and messed up, but
Yes, but the return province also matters. If the RP is the Ligurian Sea, armies can move through all provinces bordering it, ignoring forts.
In this case though, isn't this just an instance where ZOC doesn't extend to hostile and/or occupied provinces, making Albenga Non-ZOC and hence a legal move?
EDIT: Ninja'd. Look at the fort map-mode and you'll see ZOC.
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By Return Province, do you mean the province from which you first entered the ZoC, correct?
So with naval invasions, an army coming from the sea would be able to freely move in the ZoC as long as the province touched that sea "province" is what I'm getting?
Thanks for the advice guys. I rage quit because France looked ready to trounce me, but reloaded and I beat them in Cuneo. Pretty quickly got a peace deal after that since 12v11 mil tech was scary. At least I got Genoa.
Was 90% sure it wasn't a naval invasion because AI sucks at it, but it might have been. Maybe they snuck in through Cuneo, who knows.
I posted because I've played in Italy a lot since mountain ranges were added, and northern Italy is so defensible and fun to play in. But I've never seen this crap before.
Was 90% sure it wasn't a naval invasion because AI sucks at it, but it might have been. Maybe they snuck in through Cuneo, who knows.
I posted because I've played in Italy a lot since mountain ranges were added, and northern Italy is so defensible and fun to play in. But I've never seen this crap before.
AFAIK AI does cheat with ZoC. They can ignore any ZoC, if there would be another available route they could take, even if this means they would travel around the whole mediterranean or what not.
Is this not the case anymore? I'm quiet sure that happened in a recent game of mine...
Is this not the case anymore? I'm quiet sure that happened in a recent game of mine...
Regarding mil tech, how many things can you SPEND sword mana on?
Rhetorical question, the answer is ideas, rebel suppression, wartax, development and tech.
Now, look at your France. How many of those do you think they need to spend their sword mana on?
I don't need to see your save to know that they pretty much have a choice between development or tech and I think we can see which one the AI is going with here.
Rhetorical question, the answer is ideas, rebel suppression, wartax, development and tech.
Now, look at your France. How many of those do you think they need to spend their sword mana on?
I don't need to see your save to know that they pretty much have a choice between development or tech and I think we can see which one the AI is going with here.
as we both have been respectfully disagreed into oblivion i assume at some point recently they fixed it but i know for a fact that the AI could straight up ignore ZOC under circumstances and that it was a problem
they are reaching lands of genoa thats why? even if occupied you can allways reach to allied lands even when enemy fort block it. in this case occupied lands of genoa are allied zone and he can reach them even when a fort deny him
usually there is a bug that preventing ai caring about forts but this case is not that
Sharples88 your case is very odd I must admit game ALLWAYS allows you to return province you visited... you must did someting very very weird to confuse game
(by allways I mean it... if it was neutral land you had access and then you lost access game lets you return your men and this makes them exiled )
usually there is a bug that preventing ai caring about forts but this case is not that
Sharples88 your case is very odd I must admit game ALLWAYS allows you to return province you visited... you must did someting very very weird to confuse game
(by allways I mean it... if it was neutral land you had access and then you lost access game lets you return your men and this makes them exiled )
I have a very scrappy example that I happened to record which I can't explain, but I couldn't replicate to provide a cleaner example. It runs counter to my best understanding of reman's video but maybe someone can point out what I'm missing. I imagine it's possibly to do with distance to non-ZoC province but I feel it's hard to argue against this fort being entirely wasted
Pre-emptive answers to the kinda questions I might ask:
-forts were on the entire time and definitely were before I declared on Kazan or Denmark declared on me
-the only ZoC map is shown once half way through the video and, as I wasn't able to get Denmark to declare again, I could't get them to repeat the movement to document this better
-Denmark had no access to Lithuania as they had only recently ceased hostilities
-Denmark may have mil acc to Kazan or Odoyev but I don't believe that should matter as they control nothing nearby
Pre-emptive answers to the kinda questions I might ask:
-forts were on the entire time and definitely were before I declared on Kazan or Denmark declared on me
-the only ZoC map is shown once half way through the video and, as I wasn't able to get Denmark to declare again, I could't get them to repeat the movement to document this better
-Denmark had no access to Lithuania as they had only recently ceased hostilities
-Denmark may have mil acc to Kazan or Odoyev but I don't believe that should matter as they control nothing nearby