Class Promotion/Demotion feature is Annoying
- Thread starter Jman5
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Assimilation is a problem with the demotion system. The first pops assimilated jump to cover the ruler/specialist positions since assimilating pops don't work.. The previous rulers/specialists retain their previous positions so each world ends up with almost doubled up rulers/specialists for the next 7 years or until you manually ship them to developing worlds -- assuming you can find enough worlds about to open their first ruler positions.
How long does it take to demote? If promotion is instantaneous how long does it go to get back?
About 700? days from specialist to worker. About 2,000 days for ruler to worker.
Hence the issue people have with the demotion system particularly when it interacts with the other subsystems like resettlement, manually assigning pops, and assimilation.
Actually, I wildly UNDERestimated the time required. Specialists take 1800 days (5 years) and rulers take 3600 days (10 years). Either I was running some time reducers and/or didn't notice the problem until part way through the unemployment cycle.
It would be nice if the "assimilation time" counted as part of the demotion time so you wouldn't necessarily get a double-whammy. I would think that MAYBE the fix should be in how ascension works as opposed to doing too much with demotion.
Note: I like the principle of demotion however I don't particularly like how demotion is implemented with respect to other systems that did not change [to my liking] so that it worked with the other new changes seamlessly.
Super annoying and might not work, but if you preemptively disable every building slot that are currently worked by the species you're about to assimilate it should limit the damage as much as possible by preventing the worker from promoting.
Also you can wait until just 1 of the species gain the trait, then cancel the assimilation and just use the template to genetically modify every non psionic one in one shoot with no unemployed time.
Although I completely agree that it's ridiculous and shouldn't be done this way.
Hmm ... Could you pick a planet with at least one species on it that you want to eventually assimilate ; gene mod the species on JUST the one planet so you can create a SUB-SPECIES, assimilate that sub-species, then gene mod ALL OF THE REST of that particular species empire wide so every member of that species in general got PSI??? After the gene mod process is over if you change to assimilation the members that were already PSI wouldn't need assimilation ... just any "new" members that popped up via migration or similar.
Would that work?? Or is that what I should have been doing all along?? ... never said I wasn't slow
a simple fix for allowing authoritarian empires lock certain pops in place(and also prohibit promoting\a set priority as a real priority, not as open slots) will solve almost all problems with promotion.
thematically it's the same as forcefully resettling them from 1 world to another.
it's ok when you mess up economy as a result of your actions and have consequences. but it's not ok if they cam as a result of dumb ai actions (like promotion of a wrong speciest to a ruler\specialist class)
also there should definitely be an option to prevent certain species from certain stratas (I prefer all my rulers to be from my founder species. and I will not tolerate xenos on that position, though i'm ok with them taking specialist jobs)
thematically it's the same as forcefully resettling them from 1 world to another.
it's ok when you mess up economy as a result of your actions and have consequences. but it's not ok if they cam as a result of dumb ai actions (like promotion of a wrong speciest to a ruler\specialist class)
also there should definitely be an option to prevent certain species from certain stratas (I prefer all my rulers to be from my founder species. and I will not tolerate xenos on that position, though i'm ok with them taking specialist jobs)
Why not have a policy setting of "career mobility" that can be either:
Neutral (pops take some time moving up or down, available to all)
Upwards Mobility (pops nearly instantly promote up, take a while to demote down, available to egalitarians)
Strong Foundation (pops nearly instantly demote down, take a while to promote up, available to authoritarians)
The time would be modified by job suitability (multiple pops enter the race, the one with the biggest bonus available wins).
Education/retraining/allocation buildings/policies would reduce mobility time in one or both directions.
Neutral (pops take some time moving up or down, available to all)
Upwards Mobility (pops nearly instantly promote up, take a while to demote down, available to egalitarians)
Strong Foundation (pops nearly instantly demote down, take a while to promote up, available to authoritarians)
The time would be modified by job suitability (multiple pops enter the race, the one with the biggest bonus available wins).
Education/retraining/allocation buildings/policies would reduce mobility time in one or both directions.
That's sort-of a late-game solution I used in pre-2.2 for after synth ascension when working with an organic helper species. Create a secondary template with one different trait, a negative trait is fine. Set the citizenship to assimilate.
Pick a small group of planets that have filled up, convert their population and auto-assimilate them.
That way, the working organics on incomplete worlds (and breeding planets) continue.
In 2.2, the absolute best way to assimilate a captured population is to strip the captured worlds bare of personnel through resettlement, sending a single pop to each of your colonies in December. Turn on assimilation, then after January 1, resettle the entire fully assimilated population back to their original worlds -- taking care to send the pops back in stata order!
This gets around the two main headaches currently present: the 1-4 assimilation per planet per year rule and the whole 10-year unemployment caused by different pops assimilating before the rulers. It's hella micro-heavy. Though since one to three terrible worlds can crash a empire's economy, probably worthwhile.
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That does indeed sound torturous.
Simple solution, with practically zero impact upon the game..... remove demotion delays.
The only time they're relevant is when they interact incorrectly with other mechanics, giving a big 'FU' to the player.
The typical result being that the player quits because they've either irreparably broken their economy, or can't face the torturous micro needed to avoid said irreparable damage.
Interesting side-effect; the job strata concept would become unnecessary then too.
That'd allow the horrible planet management UI to be cleaned up quite a bit.
I've been hesitant to dump the delay (or drop it to something more manageable like less than a year) because I haven't figured out what purpose, if any, the delay serves in game play. What is it supposed to do?
the main reason you'll get an unemployment in a specialist\ruler class is when you replace or demote a building. or in war(when the building gets ruined).
1st one is just a punishment for mistakes I guess.
2nd may be a punishment for mismanaging rare resources (or not noticing that some buildings have them as upkeep)
as for the purpose - I guess with the delay you can't decide that "my energy\food\mineral income is screwed, I guess i'll sacrifice science\unity\alloys and demote them to clerks\techs\etc to fix it" or "i'm under attack! everyone should become a soldier or we'll be conquered".
not sure why though. both examples I though of are pretty normal decisions in a strategic game IMHO.
The promotion isn't necessarily strictly or directly "mine slave" to "doctor".
It could well be that everyone effectively moves up a job (albeit most "moves upward" are still within a stratum) - so surgeon jobs become available, doctors move into surgeon jobs, nurse practitioners move into doctor jobs, nurses move up to nurse practitioners, nurse trainees become full nurses, there's now a vacancy for nurses so more students move into that major from other sciences, other degree students move to the sciences, clerks and office workers study the now empty degrees, manual workers move into the clerk/office worker roles, and so on. (If available unemployed "worker" tier pops will then move into the manual worker tier jobs).
Because this is happening across entire population units (which can be millions or even billions of people, depending on your view point) the actual effect on a per-person level is minor - people move up perhaps the equivalent of a couple of thousand dollars or pounds in income; but on a macro level it results in a tranche of jobs worth hundreds of thousands a year causing jobs worth a couple of tens of thousands a year becoming empty.
When conversely a pop demotes there aren't enough jobs at one level lower to move into - the entire pop equivalent of surgeons and specialist doctors can't just take doctor jobs and push the doctors that already exist down a level, and so even though they take the jobs they can within the "educated medical field" tier, there are still a lot left out of work until several years have passed and they've been able to gradually assimilate back into the field, but this reduces opportunities for the lower strata to take jobs in the field, and crucially some of the *just* specialist tier population will be forced back into the "worker" tier resulting in any lasting problems from the demotion becoming visible.
It could well be that everyone effectively moves up a job (albeit most "moves upward" are still within a stratum) - so surgeon jobs become available, doctors move into surgeon jobs, nurse practitioners move into doctor jobs, nurses move up to nurse practitioners, nurse trainees become full nurses, there's now a vacancy for nurses so more students move into that major from other sciences, other degree students move to the sciences, clerks and office workers study the now empty degrees, manual workers move into the clerk/office worker roles, and so on. (If available unemployed "worker" tier pops will then move into the manual worker tier jobs).
Because this is happening across entire population units (which can be millions or even billions of people, depending on your view point) the actual effect on a per-person level is minor - people move up perhaps the equivalent of a couple of thousand dollars or pounds in income; but on a macro level it results in a tranche of jobs worth hundreds of thousands a year causing jobs worth a couple of tens of thousands a year becoming empty.
When conversely a pop demotes there aren't enough jobs at one level lower to move into - the entire pop equivalent of surgeons and specialist doctors can't just take doctor jobs and push the doctors that already exist down a level, and so even though they take the jobs they can within the "educated medical field" tier, there are still a lot left out of work until several years have passed and they've been able to gradually assimilate back into the field, but this reduces opportunities for the lower strata to take jobs in the field, and crucially some of the *just* specialist tier population will be forced back into the "worker" tier resulting in any lasting problems from the demotion becoming visible.
i know quite a few cab drivers that got a bachelor, but need to do something to get the money for their family.
in egalitarian or a free empire I can imagine that it'll take years (hell, that Dr. can as well decide that since his work is now closed and he lost his job he might as well become a beauty blogger or a streamer.
but in authoritarian empire where government decides for you where you'll live. how you'll live and what is your destiny\purpose - I doubt it'll take that long.(and if your unemployment were a result of remodeling your lab into the mine...you might as well receive a documents telling of your promotion from a specialist into the miner)
The cab drivers mentioned in SpectralShade's post would be amongst the ones moving into the "low specialist" jobs I mentioned when the vacancy at the "high specialist" roles become available.