Clarifying the Naval Leadership skill and trait combat bonuses

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This may read terribly confusing, but I feel this could be it. You tell me.


Supposedly the "Detection/Visibility ratio" helps determine POSITIONING.

It should follow then that DETECTION itself is dependent on some kind of "VISIBILITY RATIO" which of course is modified against an enemy fleet making it harder to find an Admiral with the Blockade Runner TRAIT.

I was just reading in the manual to try and get a better understanding and I discovered something I had not realized.

A Leaders Skill that is increased through experience as opposed to their TRAITS does something totally different than what I thought.

A Leaders skill modifies the actual TRAIT Bonus and does not actually confer a seperate type bonus in an of itself according to the manual.

So Admiral OZAWA the Blockade Runner with that 5 skill level must be one heck of a sneaky guy when it comes to avoiding detection by an enemy fleet.

The fact that he detected the enemy and the enemy did not detect him infers that he in fact will have a much better Visibility/Detection Ratio giving him an advantageous POSITION in that combat.

That would infer that the major advantage to having a Blockade Runner as a Fleet Combat Admiral does in fact bestow an inate Positioning advantage in situations where he ends up detecting the enemy and his TRAIT causes the enemy not to detect him. In other words his Trait does not give him a positioning bonus, but rather screws up the opposing fleets ability to gain positioning.

So the SPOTTER helps you get great Positioning period by increasing your base VISIBILITY RATIO whereas the BLOCKADE RUNNER helps you get better positioning than your oponant because his skill works to lower the opponants Visibility Ratio which in turn hurts the opponants POSITIONING.

If the Blockade Runners skill is preventing detection by an enemy fleet then it goes without saying that the enemy fleet that he engages will have an exceptionally poor Visibility Ratio and therefore bad positioning. That will not guarantee that your Blockade Runner will get great positioning, but it certainly gives him the advantage to having better positioning than the enemy fleet he is opposing.

A Blockade Runner is basically good at screwing up the enemy fleets positioning by reducing his Visibility Ratio in the positioning formula.

All this of course is dependent on the assertion that the VISIBILITY/DETECTION Ratio is used in determining POSITIONING which I am told it is.

The manual says the SKILL LEVEL Bonus from increased by experience only affects the TRAIT SKILL bonus.

A skill level +5 SPOTTER should therefor get a massive bonus to his Detection/Visibility Ratio in comparrison to a +0 skill level SPOTTER.

However, other people are saying that an Admirals SKILL level even though he has NO TRAITS does affect positioning of a fleet with just the skill. Which is it?

It is when you get the skill level up to 5, 6, or better that you see a major difference I am pretty sure. Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[blue emu]

I strongly suspect that the game manual is wrong on this point... as it is on so many others. As a general rule, computer game manuals are only really useful if you get stuck in the woods without toilet paper.

Test it. Run a few Naval battles, take screen-shots of the mouse-over tool-tip pop-up info boxes in the Naval combat screen, and then POST them. That would be a LOT more useful (and more convincing) than quoting the game manual, which is not considered a reliable source by any experienced player.

If the manual is correct, a skill-5 Superior Tactician leader should have a leader bonus of +0% and a Trait bonus of +11% in the mouse-over tool-tip pop-up info box on the Naval combat screen. If the manual is wrong (as I am CERTAIN it is), the numbers should be +10% and +10% instead of +0% and +11%.

 

[Black Watch]

Additional question on visibility and detection

HoI is an extremely complex game where the manufacturers prefer to allow players to argue many of the variables among themselves.

The only thing I know for sure that affects positioning is doctrines, though there should be more. Do Visibility and Detection really affect positioning? How about admirals' skill levels or traits?

And another question: We know that Blockade Runners presumably lower the Visibility of their ships, making them harder to spot. This should make them good for evading enemy fleets. But even if the enemy doesn't see them, the Blockade Runner's fleets can themselves spot enemies in their sea zone, (unless it's an "if you can see them, they can see you" thing) meaning they will move to engage (I've never seen a fleet spot an enemy fleet in their zone and not engage it.) Basically, is there any way to keep a fleet from trying to engage enemies even after spotting them?

I have a feeling that some orders (like Rebase) prevent your fleets from engaging enemy fleets even if your fleet would have spotted them normally, but then the game doesn't show the enemy fleet at all. The game should both show the enemy fleet and yet not have your fleet enter battle with it.

Lastly, the manual says that sometimes, you may spot only part of the enemy fleet. This is realistic, but does it really happen? Methinks naval battles always include whole fleet commands, if not every single ship belonging to that nation in that sea zone.

Thanks in advance.