Clarification on 25 tile modding

[Rayykz]

Well this changes things.... Modding tile size

Folks, due to a moderating screw-up my myself (and no one else) a few posts got messed around, my apologies. - RedRalphWiggum

 

[HomelandAuteur]

It's PR speak. It's just her saying that CO doesn't support the modding past the 9 tile limit and that any issues arisen from it will not be of their concern.

 

[gsxdsm]

A dev just responded in the AMA:

[–]co_damsku PROGRAMMER AT COLOSSAL ORDER - CITIES SKYLINES[F] 1 point a minute ago Long answer short: very. Short answer less short: unlocking additional map tiles is not just about increasing the number of tiles available. There is need to deal with the unlocking logic, the indexing, the area limitations, calculating the available resources and most likely many other things I am not thinking about right now. Some of these systems are part of the core foundation of the game and rely on very specific data structures, many of which are not intuitive nor logical in favour of performances. So unlocking more tiles would require to hijack some of those systems to replace them by your own which will deal with the criterias above. So while theoretically possible, in practise it will require some reverse engineering, a bulletproof patience and some pretty intense modding swag.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2x4mf9/we_are_colossal_order_the_team_behind_cities/coxbbgm

 

[Azurespecter]

Could you please get me a link to this YouTube video you are mentioning? I've been thoroughly investigating whether anybody from Paradox or Colossal Order has mentioned the difficulty of modding the city size limit (before the AMA), and I've found nothing.

 

[Hiramas]

At first I thought the issue was about the total map size, but after rereading the AMA, it really seems to say that unlocking more than 9 tiles would be hard.
That won't make the game any less valuable for me, but I also would like to know why it was mentioned multiple times that you could expand beyond the 9 tiles through modding. I never sounded like the modder would have to reverse engineer the whole game to do it...

Azurespecter, I am not sure where it was said, but it definitely was. It was never said it was easy but when you mention something during a live stream where you tell people how easy it is to mod the game, people are going to assume that it is possible...

 

[McWrisk]

Could you please get me a link to this YouTube video you are mentioning? I've been thoroughly investigating whether anybody from Paradox or Colossal Order has mentioned the difficulty of modding the city size limit (before the AMA), and I've found nothing.

This is where I heard it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ5cCcQm0QU

Time 2:20 of the video, and again at 3:20, or there about. Not to harp of Arumba, but I got excited to hear this line.

 

[NZSimplicity]

I can confirm too about it being said that the size could be increased to 25 by modding, am trying to find where it was mentioned but nothing so far...

 

[Azurespecter]

This is where I heard it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJ5cCcQm0QU

Time 2:20 of the video, and again at 3:20, or there about. Not to harp of Arumba, but I got excited to hear this line.

Thanks for getting me the link. Sheesh, well I can certainly understand your frustrations better now. I soooo wish we had noticed this earlier.

As you're probably aware now, Arumba was wrong about being able to simply change a setting =( I realize that doesn't make you feel better, but Paradox and Colossal Order have earnestly tried to be honest concerning the possibility of modding the city size limit.

 

[McWrisk]

Thanks for getting me the link. Sheesh, well I can certainly understand your frustrations better now. I soooo wish we had noticed this earlier.

As you're probably aware now, Arumba was wrong about being able to simply change a setting =( I realize that doesn't make you feel better, but Paradox and Colossal Order have earnestly tried to be honest concerning the possibility of modding the city size limit.

Welcome Azurespecter:

I do understand CO and Paradox being open about the modding of the game. As it stands I am still a pre-order customer waiting on Pins and Needles. And with the 9 tiles unlockable and sandbox open from the beginning that makes me excited beyond belief. Am I sad by the "easiness" of the larger map modding, yes, can't lie. But I am sure that it will be some persons, or a group of persons goal to get it to work. Heck in SC2013 they figured it out remarkably quick for a game that "didn't support modding"

I have purchased new hardware for this game (among other things, but mostly for this game) 980GTX and a new i7.

Looking forward to launch!

 

[megajaja]

I remember many times reading that it would be possible and also easy to do. I don't have sources, specific sources, but certainly TotallyMoo had stated so.
I really feel frustrated about this. I haven't complained about anything regarding the game until now, but anyone here on the forums can agree with me that even though it was made clear that CO wouldn't support increasing the map size limits because of the performance issues, it would be something easy to do for any modder.

EDIT: It wasn't just Arumba saying this. Again, many were the times we were told that increasing the size to 25 tiles wouldn't only be possible but also easy.

 

[Hicksimus]

Obviously I'd be happier to hear the opposite of this but it's hardly a deal breaker for me because the default sizing is sufficient for what I like to build....or for what I have the skill to build .

 

[NZSimplicity]

I found this on Reddit from 6 months ago:

[–]pdx_shams 29 points 6 months ago
The game will be optimized to run on the recommended hardware for the max city size. You can uncouple the city size limiter through an option - but you and your PC will be on your own.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2e3uku/we_are_colossal_order_paradox_interactive_the/?sort=top

 

[space monk]

I thought the general consensus here was that the only real limitation to extending the tiles beyond the default 9 would be the increased demand on the user's hardware.
And it was even suggested from others who had access to the game that it was not an entirely difficult technical achievement. Why this wasn't addressed directly to quell mounting expectation is not an insignificant oversight.

 

[megajaja]

I found this on Reddit from 6 months ago:



http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2e3uku/we_are_colossal_order_paradox_interactive_the/?sort=top

Being able to increase the tiles number up to 25 is just something that was stated to be true. Again, I can't think of specific sources, but certainly Arumba didn't just made a mistake. Twice.

"How big can the maps be?
(...) The cities can be 36 square km, and not necessarily in a square. However there is an option to uncouple the limitation and go bigger, dependant on the player’s hardware."
http://www.skylinescity.com/cities-skylines-faq/

"18/02/2015 at 01:18 Joshua Northey says:
Then default mode is up to 9 2x2km tiles. So a 6x6km square. By hat is actually plenty large for the core I most cities and the scale of a game like this. Then with mods you can unlock it to 10x10km and 25 tiles. That is quite large."
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/02/17/hands-on-cities-skylines/

"So we know that we are allowed to choose 9 of the 25 tiles to make our city, but through modding we should be able to use all 25 tiles (or 100 km^2 area)."
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?822199-Cities-Skylines-%96-Dev-Diary-6-Map-Editor

"Vanilla Cities:Skylines will give you 36 km2 to play with. This is based on 9 of 25 tiles being unlocked during game play (Each tile is 2 km x 2 km).
Mods will be able to unlock all 25 tiles (if your computer can handle it) giving you 100 km2.
This is pretty close to the original Cities XL 110 km2."
https://steamcommunity.com/app/255710/discussions/0/616198900651469033/?insideModal=1

Not official sources, but all those people must have heard somewhere that increasing our cities' sizes would be indeed possible and easy, just like all of us.

 

[Nichollz]

I never had the impression that it would be easy for a simple reason, they continually stated they would offer no support for expanding the tiles, only that it's possible, whereas they supported other mods hugely.

 

[megajaja]

I never had the impression that it would be easy for a simple reason, they continually stated they would offer no support for expanding the tiles, only that it's possible, whereas they supported other mods hugely.

Yes, they said they wouldn't support it because of performance issues. But they also said it would be something possible to do and not difficult at all.

I thought the general consensus here was that the only real limitation to extending the tiles beyond the default 9 would be the increased demand on the user's hardware.
And it was even suggested from others who had access to the game that it was not an entirely difficult technical achievement. Why this wasn't addressed directly to quell mounting expectation is not an insignificant oversight.

Exactly.

 

[Azurespecter]

I found this on Reddit from 6 months ago:

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2e3uku/we_are_colossal_order_paradox_interactive_the/?sort=top

Ya, that one I'm aware of. I know co_martsu tried to correct the error in this thread here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?797530-Faq/page3

Thank you Megajaja for posting some examples. It's been our goal to never over promise, so even though we never stated it was easy or difficult, perhaps we could have done better in managing this expectation. Don't give up hope though! I've seen the incredible talent, creativity, and hard work of modders who really want something. Hard doesn't mean impossible.

 

[Nichollz]

I think the problem is people have put a load of their hopes on a very non descriptive word; 'option'.

 

[ROMMEL_HSQ]

It is a big disappointment honestly. The forums here, Reddit, the previews, etc have all mentioned the 25 tiles limit being unlocked. It kind of was a selling point for CS. Everyone believe here was that it won't be difficult (but that CO won't add it as an ingame option because of performance issue). It was all over the place and the people at CO for certainly read these comments (given their great communications with the customers). Its strange that such a thing wasn't corrected until just today.

 

[FX2K]

First post just to say this..

It may not have been corrected until just today, but at least it was corrected before launch.
I read it many times myself too, its a shame but I'm still very happy with the default tiles and can't wait for the release