Claims

[John Poole]

Originally posted by todorp
Russia had a claim on Finland, Austria on Bosnia, Austria and Prussia on Poland without local support and common language. Claims are not very logical.

I really dont think Russia has claims on Finland anymore than Prussia and Austria had on their Polish territories. If Austria and Prussia had claims on their Polish territories why didn't they ally and try to take the ones they lost from Russia after 1815? Those territories were not national territories for any of those countries! Italy will certainly have no claims to Rhodes or Libya either .

However Spain will most definitly have claims on Gibraltar and France on Nice and Savoy since those territories are former core provinces of their nations. Austria will have claims on Hungary and Bohemia since those territories are the legal property of the House of Habsburg.

 

[Ernst]

Originally posted by John Poole
I really dont think Russia has claims on Finland anymore than Prussia and Austria had on their Polish territories. If Austria and Prussia had claims on their Polish territories why didn't they ally and try to take the ones they lost from Russia after 1815? Those territories were not national territories for any of those countries! Italy will certainly have no claims to Rhodes or Libya either .

However Spain will most definitly have claims on Gibraltar and France on Nice and Savoy since those territories are former core provinces of their nations. Austria will have claims on Hungary and Bohemia since those territories are the legal property of the House of Habsburg.

See what I said ?

That will certainly be one of the most interesting parts of this forum after release, I'm sure we're going to learn a lot from each other concerning our respective nations' Histories.

NB : in fact, before their annexation Savoy and Nice had *never* been part of France, the rulling House of the Duchy of Savoy was as old or older than the French Capetian kings. In that particular case the "claim" would have been a similar language.

 

[unmerged(332)]

Originally posted by m45tion87

More "weird" (ex. Russia claims Brasilia) claims, more hostile nations.

Specially weird because Brasília was estabilished in 1960.

 

[unmerged(19226)]

re Finnish Dragon

I guess most of the population was calvinistic or protestant heretics. So it would by pretty hard to enforce the Spanish rule to Netherlands in 19th century. Seriously speaking

Yes, you're right but I speak seriously! These poor heretics need some catholic help to encourage them about true faith! Poor duque de Alba tried to do what he could but his righteous efforts wasn't decisive. So my efforts will be decisive, I hope
Netherlands to Spain!!!

 

[Finnish Dragon]

Originally posted by Dzoser
Yes, you're right but I speak seriously! These poor heretics need some catholic help to encourage them about true faith! Poor duque de Alba tried to do what he could but his righteous efforts wasn't decisive. So my efforts will be decisive, I hope
Netherlands to Spain!!!

Of course you can try to conquer Netherlands as Spain but nations like Britain, France or Prussia should intervene in you try that in Victoria period. The problem is you are disrupting the balance of power in your favor and in that time it wasn´t very liked. The problem with Spain in 1835 was that Spain was a 2nd rate power which didn´t have a strength to fight against a coalition of nations especially if they are the leading powers.

Britain, France or Prussia won´t probably approve Spain´s claim on Netherlands and it is likely that they will defend the Dutch independence because it is also their interest. I think Marocco would be easier area to take than the Netherlands even if you don´t have claim on it.

 

[unmerged(19226)]

re Finnish Dragon
You're absolutely right and I know that Spain was 2nd rate power in this period but I think that It wouldn't be game if I couldn't change this situation. So I will do what I can to conquer Netherlands as Spain and I won't forget to make some suitable aliance before doing it With Austria, I hope

 

[nalivayko]

Spain is ruled by Bourbons at this time, they should have no claims on Netherlands, since it belonged to Habsburg family. Austria, on the other hand...

England should have a claim on Hannover.

Russia should have claim on its part of Poland, while Prussia and Austria - on theirs. I would say the claim should exist if a significant number of countries (or couple of significant countries) acknowledge it.

Again, there was a discussion before about making different kinds of claims. Russia should be able to "claim" Balkans, but only for purpose of liberation. E.g. as long as Serbia is not owned by Orthodox and Slavic country, Russia should have a claim on it. If it conquers Serbia ( = owned by Russia, Orthodox and Slavic), it loses a cb on the province.

Anyway, my two cents into this discussion.

 

[unmerged(19226)]

re nalivayko

Spain is ruled by Bourbons at this time, they should have no claims on Netherlands, since it belonged to Habsburg family. Austria, on the other hand...

I know but I will throw away these French dogs and I will recall Habsburg faimily once again to my lovely Spain Wait a minute it is not important, Bourbons may stay, since they are catholics By the way I don't think that Habsburgs as rules of Spain didn't have claims based on bulla of pope Alexander VI. They didn't rule in Spain when it was annonuced.

 

[Syt]

Originally posted by nalivayko
England should have a claim on Hannover.

I had understood that Hannover and England were always considered to be seperate entities without any genuine effort by England to bring England back after Queen Victoria's rise to the throne?

 

[SykoNurse]

I think Hannover should have a claim on England.

 

[nalivayko]

How about both of them having a claim on each other?

 

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by nalivayko
How about both of them having a claim on each other?

Neither one should have a claim on the other, as neither one claimed the other.

 

[nalivayko]

Hm, you're right, of course, but wasn't Hannover a vassal of England in RL (it is in EU2) and didn't England get mad when Napoleon conquered it? It might be the same case as with Russia and Serbia - as long as Hannover is under occupation England has a CB on the province. Once released, England loses it.

 

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by nalivayko
Hm, you're right, of course, but wasn't Hannover a vassal of England in RL (it is in EU2) and didn't England get mad when Napoleon conquered it? It might be the same case as with Russia and Serbia - as long as Hannover is under occupation England has a CB on the province. Once released, England loses it.

They were both under the personal rule of the same monarch after the death of Queen Anne...but this ended in 1837 when Victoria became Queen of the United Kingdom and Victoria's uncle Prince Ernest became Ernest Augustus I of Hanover.

 

[unmerged(12761)]

Originally posted by Dark Knight
They were both under the personal rule of the same monarch after the death of Queen Anne...but this ended in 1837 when Victoria became Queen of the United Kingdom and Victoria's uncle Prince Ernest became Ernest Augustus I of Hanover.

Well, then you maybe can hold on to them, right?

 

[Earl Uhtred]

I suppose you could try, but at massive diplomatic cost.

 

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by Merlin_111
Well, then you maybe can hold on to them, right?

The laws of succession in the two countries differed.

 

[Chengar Qordath]

Originally posted by Dark Knight
The laws of succession in the two countries differed.

Did Hannover have Salic law?

 

[unmerged(8913)]

Originally posted by Chengar Qordath
Did Hannover have Salic law?

Hmmm. A Salic Law discussion in the Victoria forum. I certainly didn't expect that....

 

[Dark Knight]

Originally posted by Chengar Qordath
Did Hannover have Salic law?

Yes.

Originally posted by Marcus Valerius

Hmmm. A Salic Law discussion in the Victoria forum. I certainly didn't expect that....

It was important in various disputes even in the Victoria period, see the Wikipedia entry.