Claims and making them less infuriating

[QuinnMallory]

I have no doubt that others have said this before, but wars to install a pretender should not end on the person's death if the claim is inherited by a person who it is either valid for you to press the claims of, or can be made so immediately (e.g., will accept an invitation to your court). The war would still end if no one can inherit the claim, or if you can't install the claim inheriter (from another court and won't come to yours, is a different religion, etc.). It doesn't make sense that everyone would just give up and go home because the guy died if he's got a son: the fact that they're waging the war at all means that they believe he should be on the throne, and therefore the succession rules should still apply.

 

[AlexArgos]

I can't think of a worse idea. Many of the murders I or the AI attempt are against claimants. Making those murders useless would destroy a great part of the intrigue mechanics of the game.

 

[Duskwave]

I think the ideal theoretically, though would probably be a lot of work to implement so is unlikely to happen, would be a popup to the war leader: "Our claimant has died. What do we do? 1. Press on to install his heir (war continues, all armies: -10% Morale) 2. Abandon the attempt (war ends inconclusively) 3. (If you have a claim on it yourself and are not the heir from 1) I'll take over on my own! (war continues, all armies: -20% Morale)

Morale penalties would stack if multiple claimants died before conclusion of the war.

 

[Lycrist Katkiller]

The OPs Idea is not that bad as it might seem:

1. If you press your own claim and die, the war does not end upon your death but rather keeps going (at least if your heir is your child, not sure what happens if succession law is elective)
2. If you press someone weak claim to a title and he dies, the war will end immidiently. If the dead claimaint had a child you may instantly declare war again (after you stand down your troops) and declare war again. That doesn't really make sense

3. Claimaints are murder targets, that's correct, however it happens only very rarely after the war already started

4. Why should there be a moral penalty? Your troops don't really care about the justification of the war, and why should you be able to take over as new claimant? Now this would lead to massive murder-plot/claim pressing abuse

 

[Duskwave]

Agree with your points 1-3.

Regarding 4: Morale penalties come up in other situations regarding justification: Decadence, Strong/Weak Leader, various effects related to Zealous, etc. It's not just "what your troops think" (though that's historically mattered quite a bit sometimes), it also reflects the amount of support/logistics you have from those providing/backing those troops. But losing the official original rationale and falling back to "or this guy..." is generally demoralizing in a very literal sense.

I mention you being able to take over if you are also a claimant yourself, not getting a claim or anything, mostly for cases like pressing a parent's claim or the like where you may not have had a claim yourself at the time you started the war, but do after the claimant dies. Just seems logical/realistic and saves a step

 

[Avil]

That's just "war ended inconclusively" is stupid on it's own. None of the wars should end "just because". Every war have it's logical continuation. Only war that I would like to see ending inconclusively is when starter of the war dies without proper heir. Because inherited from my vassals wars with -95% progress and -5k ducats penalty if you lose are my favorite. But I would be content with this if none of wars ended "just because".

 

[Froggie]

I have no doubt that others have said this before, but wars to install a pretender should not end on the person's death if the claim is inherited by a person who it is either valid for you to press the claims of, or can be made so immediately (e.g., will accept an invitation to your court). The war would still end if no one can inherit the claim, or if you can't install the claim inheriter (from another court and won't come to yours, is a different religion, etc.). It doesn't make sense that everyone would just give up and go home because the guy died if he's got a son: the fact that they're waging the war at all means that they believe he should be on the throne, and therefore the succession rules should still apply.

It is frustrating, but at the same time I don't think this should be implemented as your Heir should usually be able to press the same claim.

After all it is a "weak claim".