bah Im really having hard time following this thread - strymon to bulgaria - yupee 
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Byakhiam, I was wrong. The land Styria held is probably not enough to make Vas part of it. Vas is not south western enough and the Styrian lands are not enough. But there are no lands of Styria in Salzburg either. So I'd rather say you still do it for gameplay reasons. Or you change the Duchy Styria to the Duchy of Salzburg and give it the same borders as you had in the beginning. The lands Salzburg held in Styria aren't that big, but there were some.
Btw. I don't like the places on the map, but that won't change. Kärnten is totally wrong (it has no Kärnten in it!) the shape of all (!) Austrian provinces are wrong etc. But you have to live with what you get and that is the best way it is now.
One thing I just thought of. I think that would be good. Make the Duchy of Austria to Austria-Styria. Styria got a Duchy in 1180 and part of Austria in 1192. Not very historical as the Duchy was splitted away in the late part of the game (mainly 1365-1435). But that's nothing to the length it was together. Salzburg would then get to Bavaria, as it was no part of Austria for a long time.
Btw. I don't like the places on the map, but that won't change. Kärnten is totally wrong (it has no Kärnten in it!) the shape of all (!) Austrian provinces are wrong etc. But you have to live with what you get and that is the best way it is now.
One thing I just thought of. I think that would be good. Make the Duchy of Austria to Austria-Styria. Styria got a Duchy in 1180 and part of Austria in 1192. Not very historical as the Duchy was splitted away in the late part of the game (mainly 1365-1435). But that's nothing to the length it was together. Salzburg would then get to Bavaria, as it was no part of Austria for a long time.
I don't find them looking ugly and disjointed at all. In fact, I think it looks pretty this way.Byakhiam said:Well, ok, I admit I'm not very knowledged on Corsican history. Just going on assumptions.
However, it won't change that Pisa with Corsica looks pretty ugly and disjointed and both Sardinia and Corsica went pretty much hand in hand until Genoese takeover of Corsica. Your maps even show that Pisa controlled most of Sardinia in 1100 and 1200.
Also...
This makes it seem rather clear, to me, that the whole of the island is best represented as a duchy of its own; Corsica wasn't part of its internal struggles for power.Wickedpedia said:
Ok wait. I'm confused. What EXACT changes for Sardinia-Corsica are we talking about?
Duchy title overing both islands and ITAL still, or NONE?
Duchy title overing both islands and ITAL still, or NONE?
Byakhiam said:There is a map in the first post for duchies, which has been updated to changes suggested by this thread. The duchy map just is less visually helpful as the kingdoms map. And you're free to post duchy suggestions in here, like several folks have done and I've discussed about. It's just that they aren't as controversial as certain unnamed Iberian kingdom, which can be argued about for four pages non-stop.
PS. We're making progress.
Off topic has a Country-That-Shall-Remain-Unnamed, and now so does CK!
Yay us!
Duuk said:
Phoenix argues for Corsica being given to duchy of Pisa, which I disagree with. Making Sardinia (the island) NONE has also been presented and I'm finding that nice idea. The current setup has both islands in same duchy and in ITAL.
EDIT: And it's country-not-to-be-named only for this thread.
lets give those islands a duchy of their own finally
btw Denmark is so small.. even wales is bigger bah
btw Denmark is so small.. even wales is bigger bah
I'm having trouble tracking the small changes in duchys... could we possibly have an updated list (just with the ones that changed name/provinces)? Just to make sure I'm not proposing something that's already been done.
After reviewing the main map...
Make Malta part of the Duchy it borders in Africa
Make Rome part of the Duchy it is west of.
And what was the logic behind making Venice NONE for ITAL? I don't see that logic. I was probably arguing for a certain other kingdom when that decision was made.
Make Malta part of the Duchy it borders in Africa
Make Rome part of the Duchy it is west of.
And what was the logic behind making Venice NONE for ITAL? I don't see that logic. I was probably arguing for a certain other kingdom when that decision was made.
Well for me an argument will be that Venice was a kingdom of its own.. er republic whatever - quite significant one
Besides - is it THAT bad to have NONE countries to be so eager to put them in duchies?
Duuk said:And what was the logic behind making Venice NONE for ITAL? I don't see that logic. I was probably arguing for a certain other kingdom when that decision was made.
I think I remember it was changed so that Venice didn't need a kingdom title (as it does now). As it is now, Venice is a kingdom in order not to pledge allegiance to the king of Italy, IIRC.
Well, with the exception of Brittany and Wallachia/Maldau, I can't think of any areas that weren't "in" kingdoms during this period.
Also, since Venice and Pope are "kingdom" level at game start, they won't pledge no matter what, so having Venice in ITAL doesn't hurt the game 1 tiny bit.
Also, since Venice and Pope are "kingdom" level at game start, they won't pledge no matter what, so having Venice in ITAL doesn't hurt the game 1 tiny bit.
Riddermark said:lets give those islands a duchy of their own finally
btw Denmark is so small.. even wales is bigger bah
Denmark is now eight provinces (Holstein not yet on the first map). Wales is six.
tommassi said:
It's more difficult with duchies, since the while the kingdom setup is basically very similiar to vanilla, the duchy setup is radically different. I can try to make a "list of changes made in this thread" for duchies too.
Duuk said:
Nah, Malta is a perfect case of isolated island, which shouldn't be part of a duchy. If it should be part of something, then Sicily.
Duuk said:
The blue one? Spoleto? That would be ok, I guess, though I think Roma could be NONE too, being rather special province as Papal Home after all.
Duuk said:And what was the logic behind making Venice NONE for ITAL? I don't see that logic. I was probably arguing for a certain other kingdom when that decision was made.
Pure gameplay. I want to make Venice a duchy and we don't want that to pledge to Italy / HRE.
Duuk said:
But Venice is an "easy" kingdom to get as a powerful duke at the beggining of the game, I guess. A little bit exploitive. So that might be the reason...
Not that worried about that, either, but I think that was the reasoning behind the decision.
Byakhiam said:
Thanks a lot, then
You have a point there but an independant count of venice will pledge to germany u very well know that. And this happens when venice gets it which happens :>
Drachenfire said:
No. Better start a new thread with the change in question or scenario date and general area in question as title. This is a thread about the areas you need to create/usurp duchies and kingdoms.
EDIT: All, first post is updated with duchy change list and most recent duchy and kingdom maps. From now on, maps will be only in the first post and I will only notify about them being updated.
Good god, what happened to Russia?! No, don't like that one little bit. I (like Phoenix) want to see a Khazaria, but if thats gonna be it, forget it. Its far to large (and I am not just talking historically here). If your argument is that the Russian Princes will just form Bolgar/Cuman variant rather than Rus, it won't wash. They will just form Lithuania/Finland instead.
I would be more happy if Bjarmia went to Finland, Rus compensated by cutting more into that yellow monstrosity..... hmm even then, not much.
I think three Kingdoms are needed, not two (especially if one is our semi-fantasy/semi-factual Khazaria) in an area that could hold more (gameplay issues taken into account).
Ayeshteni
I would be more happy if Bjarmia went to Finland, Rus compensated by cutting more into that yellow monstrosity..... hmm even then, not much.
I think three Kingdoms are needed, not two (especially if one is our semi-fantasy/semi-factual Khazaria) in an area that could hold more (gameplay issues taken into account).
Ayeshteni
Byakhiam said:EDIT: All, first post is updated with duchy change list and most recent duchy and kingdom maps. From now on, maps will be only in the first post and I will only notify about them being updated.
Great, thanks a lot. I see finally the duchy of Zaragoza changed to duchy of Aragón. I just wanted to note that it's now highly advisable to use different tags for that duchy and for the actual Emirate of Zaragoza. Having an Emirate of Aragon... well
I don't really have to explain, right?I forgot to mention about Baleares. It should be renamed to Mallorca and do just the same as with Zaragoza/Aragon: if possible, use different tags for each of them. That would make for a far mor historical setup in the 1066 scenario.
Should the Aragonese Duchy be Baleares or Mallorca? The original name of the duchy is Mallorca, but I was recalling that kings of Aragon were also kings of Baleares and you seemed to point into same direction in the thread too.
Ayeshteni, Khazaria has not cut into Russia anywhere, just eaten up Cuman/Bolgar/NONE territories. By these changes Russia has actually grown in the Northern Wasteland clearly more than it lost to Finland.
I made Khazaria big, because that generally is the prime area where Rus princes eat into and if it gets eaten, it generally gets eaten by one principality as they kill Cumans or Volga. I've seen AI form Cuman and Bolgar in the game, never Lithuania. Not even duchies of Karelia or Finland either.
Ayeshteni, Khazaria has not cut into Russia anywhere, just eaten up Cuman/Bolgar/NONE territories. By these changes Russia has actually grown in the Northern Wasteland clearly more than it lost to Finland.
I made Khazaria big, because that generally is the prime area where Rus princes eat into and if it gets eaten, it generally gets eaten by one principality as they kill Cumans or Volga. I've seen AI form Cuman and Bolgar in the game, never Lithuania. Not even duchies of Karelia or Finland either.