Claimable duchy & kingdom setups for CK 1.05

[Veldmaarschalk]

Holstein, I had a discussion with Styrbiorn where he showed me and I agreed that it isn't actually Slesvig or at least most of the province is not Slesvig. I can't find that discussion anymore though. o

Could it be this post ?

Alltough in this post Styrbiorn rather argues that Holstein is 80% of modern Slesvig/Sönderjylland.

So he might have changed his mind at some points, or he has found some other facts about it

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Hey Veldie, you have better memory than me. So it was Calgacus that pointed out that it wasn't Slesvig and then Styr stymied him. I had it all wrong, except that I recalled that Styr made a convincing final argument. Off to Denmark with that Holstein then.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

Hey Veldie, you have better memory than me. So it was Calgacus that pointed out that it wasn't Slesvig and then Styr stymied him. I had it all wrong, except that I recalled that Styr made a convincing final argument. Off to Denmark with that Holstein then.

I am good, really good



Veldmaarschalk has just gained the trait 'proud'

 

[Third Angel]

About Corsica since the discussion was renewed, and in the hope of not being disregarded again.

According to the rules we've been trying to follow up to now, the island should/could go to Pisa, the legal owner of the island for most of the era, BUT that would leave us with a two-provinces duchy of Sardinia, and I was under the impression that the general rule was to have most duchies of 3-5 provinces which is fine in my opinion.
On the other hand Corsica could just as well remain with Sardinia: both islands had the Pope as their official liege since Pepin's Donation.
Then the Pope gave both of them to Pisa, then Corsica to Genoa who had already wrestled it from Pisa anyway. Then later when Ghibelline were ruling Genoa and Pisa was too much weakened, both of them were granted to Aragon (somewhere in the 14th century) who only managed to seize Sardinia in the end.

To get to the point, Corsica and Sardinia could remain together as they were associated most of the time between 1066 and 1453, BUT there is absolutely no reason to name the duchy "Duchy of Sardina" (except maybe for the size of the islands???). Please rename the duchy "Duchy of Sardinia and Corsica".
I promise I won't argue about the order.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

"Sardinia and Corsica" is nastily long for a duchy name and it has "and" in it, which can be seriously confusing in title listing. "Sardinia-Corsica" would be better, if it really has to feature both names.

 

[Olaus Petrus]

My suggestion for fantasy kingdom of Finland:

Duchy of Finland
Duchy of Karelia, Aunus (Onega) should be part of duchy of Karelia and not part of duchy of Bjarmia. Onega was and is most eastern part of Karelia.
Ingria
Duchy of Estonia
Estonian parts of Duchy of Livonia.

That way creating kingdom of Finland would require uniting all lands of the Baltic Finno-Ugrics. So Byakhiam's last map is almost perfect. I just want that Onega is added to Duchy of Karelia and Kingdom of Finland.

BTW: Bjarmia of sagas was most likely in White Karelia, but because there's no better name for Duchy of Bjarmia it should stay in the game. After all Bjarmia is rather general term for the shores of the White Sea. As I said earlier tribe of Sames should be renamed as tribe of Samoyeds. Frozen Tundra should belong to Rus, because Novgorodians were only one who even got slight interest to the area.

 

[Duuk]

"Sardinia and Corsica" is nastily long for a duchy name and it has "and" in it, which can be seriously confusing in title listing. "Sardinia-Corsica" would be better, if it really has to feature both names.

I like Sardinia-Corsica.

 

[Solmyr]

Poland and Lithuania are both in the vanilla borders, except Vladimir Volynsky was given to Russia.

Yes, and I disagree with that. Those lands belonged to Rus for 3/4 of the game, from 1066 (and earlier, ever since Vladimir the Great united Rus) up until mid-14th century when Lithuania took over those places.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Yes, and I disagree with that. Those lands belonged to Rus for 3/4 of the game, from 1066 (and earlier, ever since Vladimir the Great united Rus) up until mid-14th century when Lithuania took over those places.

Ah, you made it sound like it was something made in this thread that was wrong.

What provinces you think should be changed from LITH to RUSS and will they make LITH too small?

 

[unmerged(5822)]

I am good, really good

For once, you're right.

 

[unmerged(5822)]

Another updated revised summary of changes I think should be done:

• Corsica to Pisa: 1100 and 1200. Pisa was the longest legal owner of the island during the CK timeframe. Pisa has a stronger "claim" to the island than Sardinia. Duchy size is not an issue here, as they're both size 2 without Corsica - but Pisa was a more important political entity than Sardinia during this timeframe, at least from my point of view.
  • I also think that Sardinia should be in NONE. (clarification: kingdom=NONE, not duchy!)
• Fantasy kingdom border adjustments:
  • Cyrenaica to Africa (minus easternmost province); Egypt didn't stretch so far west and Africa is currently a bit small in # of provinces (and not as wealthy as Egypt to begin with).
  • "The square-ish looking province sticking out of Syria's northern border" to Armenia, as it would make the border more pleasing to the eye.

 

[Duuk]

I'm against any NONE duchies, and I like having the islands being their own Duchy, regardless of "actual" claim.

 

[Duuk]

Side note: Why don't we change this strictly to "Kingdom discussion" and make a seperate thread (with maps!) for Duchies. It'll also make us feel like we're making progress.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

I agree with the Phoenix there. Except Sardinia should be a Duchy. But not in Italy for reasons already said.

Btw, that's Tell Bashir you're talking about.

 

[unmerged(5822)]

I agree with the Phoenix there. Except Sardinia should be a Duchy.

I'm not saying that Sardinia shouldn't be a duchy, just that it shouldn't be in any kingdom for the very same reasons that Britanny isn't.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Side note: Why don't we change this strictly to "Kingdom discussion" and make a seperate thread (with maps!) for Duchies. It'll also make us feel like we're making progress.

There is a map in the first post for duchies, which has been updated to changes suggested by this thread. The duchy map just is less visually helpful as the kingdoms map. And you're free to post duchy suggestions in here, like several folks have done and I've discussed about. It's just that they aren't as controversial as certain unnamed Iberian kingdom, which can be argued about for four pages non-stop.

PS. We're making progress.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

I'm not saying that Sardinia shouldn't be a duchy, just that it shouldn't be in any kingdom for the very same reasons that Britanny isn't.

Why shouldn't Corsica be NONE in that case as well and them grouped into one duchy? I don't recall Corsica being significantly easier to rule than Sardinia.

 

[unmerged(48100)]

I'm not saying that Sardinia shouldn't be a duchy, just that it shouldn't be in any kingdom for the very same reasons that Britanny isn't.

Oh, then I misunderstood you. If you mean it like that I agree to all of your arguments.

 

[unmerged(5822)]

Why shouldn't Corsica be NONE in that case as well and them grouped into one duchy? I don't recall Corsica being significantly easier to rule than Sardinia.

This map suggests otherwise...
http://www.euratlas.com/time/sw1200.htm

 

[unmerged(21937)]

This map suggests otherwise...
http://www.euratlas.com/time/sw1200.htm

Well, ok, I admit I'm not very knowledged on Corsican history. Just going on assumptions.

However, it won't change that Pisa with Corsica looks pretty ugly and disjointed and both Sardinia and Corsica went pretty much hand in hand until Genoese takeover of Corsica. Your maps even show that Pisa controlled most of Sardinia in 1100 and 1200.